WhyWeWork BrianVee
WhyWeWork BrianVee

Episode 33 · 2 years ago

#33 Punit Bhatia Privacy Expert Author Speaker BrianVee Whywework


Punit Bhatia   

Contact Info  

Punit’s Profile linkedin.com/in/punitbhatia  

Websites humanr.nl/nl/results/nieuws-events/nieuwsitem/article/indische-iters-veroveren-lage-landen-aziatische-ict-bedrijven-willen-dichter-bij-grote-klanten-we.html (in media)  

punitbhatia.com (Personal Website)  

Phone +32483118055 (Mobile)  

Email punitworld@gmail.com  

Twitter punitworld  

Books on Amazon  

Be an effective DPO: https://a.co/1nilN7O

Intro to GDPR: A Plain English Guide to Compliance: https://a.co/gsReR0P

Be Ready for GDPR: Let us check your readiness for General Data Protection Regulation (GDPR): https://a.co/cHmKFfP  


"Are you looking for a privacy consultant who can help your company in compliance with privacy laws like GDPR, CCPA, and so on? I have done so many times including: 

1. In a European Bank, I defined, designed and implemented a privacy compliance roadmap inline GDPR and group policy in collaboration with business and IT stakeholders 

2. In a large European bank with operations in 30 plus countries, I created a privacy strategy, monitoring framework and guided privacy professionals across retail and wholesale operations 

3. In a global manufacturing company, I created a privacy policy for operations in 60+ countries, facilitated an investigation with authority and trained business to create privacy awareness and knowledge amongst staff If you want results like above, please contact me.  

I am also an author of books like "Be Ready for GDPR" (Listed as #1 ebook on GDPR all-time list) and "Intro to GDPR" (Listed as #9 ebook on GDPR). If you need a speaker for your next event, I can help you engage audiences as a speaker."

Welcome to why we work, with your host, Brian V as. He speaks to people like you from all over the world as we together dive deeper into our motivations, struggles, joys, seemingly missteps, hopes, warnings and advice which will be an encouragement to us all to get up, get going and keep on working. Workings tough, but working is good. Now here's your host to why we work, Brian V hi, am Brian V at, why we work, and today I have the great pleasure of speaking with punit but Tia. Now, this man is an expert in his field. It is going to be a very, very interesting conversation, to say the least. He is a privacy expert. He's an author, a speaker, and the books that he has written, such as being effective DPO, which is a data protection officer, or be ready for GDPR, which a general data protection regulation. This is pretty deep stuff, but it's good to learn. Data protection is important. So let's have a listen of this man's journey with work. Hi, am Brian Vy in. This is why we work. Today have the great pleasure speaking to you today with Mr put it but Tia. Good day find sir, hello, thanks for having me here and thanks for the good work you do, Brian in this podcast. Thank you, sir, and the work that you do, which I was just mentioning to you. The field of which that you were working in, I think it will be best described by you, but you're in the privacy the behind the computer that we always see data protection, privacy and how people can work in those industries, how people can be protected. Can you give a little short description about what it is you do? That's an interesting question. So you discuss summed it up very well. We are living in a modern world and in the modern world it's all about data. Like now we are recording podcast and you know my name, I know your name, we have each other's email, but that's with all good interest. You want to help me, I want to help you and we are exchanging that information. But then sometimes it so happens that there is not the good interest, but people get access to our data, access to our information. So protecting that information and making sure the information is being used for the right purposes is privacy, and how we do that is there are many, many, many things that are rules for that. There are guidelines that are security things and there are organizational things, but I would leave that out. Essentially, it is about allowing people to have the right of the freedom to choose what they want to share and with who they want to share, and and that is knowing now with facebook and all these other places that grab your information, then you wonder, is it just sit in a cabinet somewhere or is it being used or you know with hackers and all that. But before we maybe touch on that a little bit later, can you bring me back, way back to when you were a child or when you would have gotten your first job? Like so you're here now and you know this is a big area of controversy, this is a big area of interest for people nowadays. But what were you thinking way back when you got your first job? And what was it? That's about twenty twenty one years ago. So I was back in one thousand nine hundred and ninety nine when I got out of my college. I think it was end of May to thousand nineteen ninety nine, and that moment I just passed out off engineering and I completed my engineering and the sorry. So why where are you from? Original India. So India now, at part of Inda, at two thousand and twenty one. That was your first paying job. Is that? Is that a normal thing in India? That's normal in Korea, where I am now. So a lot of people do not work at all until they finish college. But being from Canada and in the United States, North America, that's not as common, where kids would get a job at twelve, thirteen, fourteen, fifteen, you know, doing small things. Yeah, so I was lucky. I didn't need to work till I was out of college. Okay, yeah, which was in one thousand nine hundred and ninety nine, middle of it. Until then I had not...

...had any job. That or the first time. The choice was do I go for a master's degree or do I go for a job? Okay, and I chose to go for a job. And then you probably know it, because that's how it is in most Asian countries. You tend to follow the crowds, you tend to follow the way everybody's doing it. So everybody was either going for master's degree or the job, and I chose to go for the job. And then, you I got into something called information technology, so what we call it, or computers. So I started there and I don't know if you want me to walk you through entire journey, but that's what I did in nineteen ninety nine, two thousand and three. I don't sorry, I do want you to walk through that journey because I think it is interesting. But you mentioned that you were fallowing in nineteen ninety nine. I came from a university that just before that started to bring computers into their classroom, which is, you know, nineteen ninety six, nineteen ninety nine. It's a pretty new thing compared to now, where everyone carries a computer in their hand. But you mentioned you were following. was there any motivation of your own to get your first job opposed to starting your master's degree? What was what was the motivation driving you at that time? Because now you're a young man right, so it's not well, you know, I just want to buy some hockey cards or some cricket cards or anything like that. What was the motivation at that time to not pursue the master's degree and get into it? So the motivation was I wanted to be in the workforce and I had a feeling that when you are in the other number of years starts counting. That's how I used to think at that time. So I thought if I started in nineteen ninety nine and in two thousand and one, when somebody has completed their master's degree, I would be two years of experience rather than starting in the job force. So that was the motivation and I said I can always do my masters a few years later, because some people told me when you have five, six seven years of experience and then you do your masters, you can leverage that master's better because you have experience and then you understand, and that's what I did. In about two thousand and nine I joined an MBA. HMM, that's did you have any advice? You mentioned a little bit there, but the thinking of well, I'm not going to pursue this masters because that will be two strikes against me in starting in my employment. was there anyone in like family or friends or just students? Are somebodies that said Hey, this is the path, or is that just something you thought of on your own? I mean there wasn't the formal coaching as we call it, like somebody coming and coaching. But yes, like most Asian cultures, there was this culture that family, friends, relatives, everybody would give you advice. Rather there's those too much of advice that it like that and you really need to choose what you want, and I was the one who was a little bit more an independence. Some called it stubborn, but I called it the independent Guy who would decide for himself. So I was like, okay, I want to be independent and I want to be starting my job first, and I was also fascinated by the computer's part of it. So I did my chemical engineering and want went into computers. Of course, I have done a diploma alongside it. So I had experienced it and that fascinated me and that's what I started. So as you got in there, what was the reason for chemical engineering? Okay, that was another story. That was call it destiny, call it luck, call it accident, different on the engineering. Yeah, yeah, because the way it was when I passed out my twelve exam. So in India it's like after twelve you go to college. Yes, so when I did my high school, you needed to appear in an all over India exam and you used to get a rank. So based on that rank, you would get into a college and you'll get a choice of a degree. So I was so I was in the queue and they were finishing up all the engineerings, and then it was you're going to get into architecture, and I said no, five years, no way, I had nothing to do with architecture. And then it's so happened. Somebody in front of the queue pulled out and they had one position which landed with me. They said it's chemical engineering and I said, okay, anyhow, I don't know what's the difference between chemical, mechanical electrical engineer, but it is not five years and it is an engineering, so let's do that. So I did it literally like that, without much knowledge or information about chemical and when I got in I found that it was a bit challenging. Of It chemicals, Chemistry and so on. Little, I mean I was either a mathematician or a physician or more in between. I mean not the physician of the doctor, the physic sky, and chemical was in between. So I and then, in parallel, I did...

...this computer's diploma and I said, HMM, so in India the trend was if you have an engineering, you can get to computers, whatever engineering it. Okay, that sounds good. Let's complete this chemical engineering and get me, let me get into this the field of computers. So that is how it happened. was that a hard transition for you? Was it completely deferenent, or was there some similarities in how they approached ideas and theories? I mean there were a few commonalities because as an engineer you are hard wired to think analytically and in computers that's what you need. So essentially, two plus two is always for and that's what you're taught in mathematics, in engineering and your thoughts, to think in patterns. So it worked well. But as I started to evolve, as I started to work in that I realized that it was getting to analytical, too technical, even for my comfort. But then, as I had more and more opportunities and I switched jobs, I realized that there was this soft side of technology. So you can either be a hardcore professional who sits behind the PC and does coding, or you can be a project manager who has to Liazon, who has to talk, who has to build relationships, understand others perspective and communicate it to others. So that's where I got fascinated with. And then project management, relationship management, sales management and program management and I said that sounds interesting. But then I had a void voied meaning because in my heart I was in my head I was analytical guy. must do is always fall but in the management plus two would be anything, because it's people. Think. It depends on who the person is in front of you, and that's fair. Fascinated me. And then I was like doubting myself. Is My head right or heart right? In my heart I was the people person. In my head I was the analytical guy and I needed to marry the two. So I went into MBA and to just to validate. HOW DO MANAGERS ACT? And then I understood management is an art, it's not a science. So I've done the science and now it's the art which I'm into. And that was a big revelation because I understood about communications and the art of not being perfect. So done is better than perfect. Philosophy like that. Or you need to give people space. And then I started learning about sympathy. Empathy soft skills. So from hard skills I moved to soft skills. With those soft skills, was there some influence in your life to realize that this is important, because with those hard skills, some people, whether they realize the soft skills are important, they will be more enlyrical, they'll just study the numbers and not be that more compassionate, sympathetic manager that you seem to have a heart desire for, while still appreciating the numbers. was there some influence growing up that that you to have that hurt for people? I don't know. I never put that into perspective, but I have had a feeling that what I was doing in my analytical was because the society or the situation demanded so, while in the more people side of it, that was something I enjoyed more so, kind of improving myself, discovering why others think what they think, understanding who they are what they want to do. So that's the side which fascinated me. But if I look back, if I see what do we say thirty years ago or twenty five years ago, I still have this fascination of by things work the way they work. I never paid attention to it. I was always a thinker. I was always thinking too much, but I missuse that thinking energy because I was doing it in an analytical way without paying respect that humans are humans and you can't apply science on them. So in which way were you applying it to humans? So it to me, it's still sounds a little one off for me to understand how you how you saw it, your potential in what work you were going to do to apply to people and how, maybe that leads right into what you do now, but how is it touching the people's hearts in their lives? So I have this tendency that, let's say I'm talking to you, I would over exaggerate if I'm in one thousand nine, hundred and ninety nine or before, or even say before two thousand and ten, till I had done my Mba, I would overthink and imagine. Okay, Brian would ask me this, then I would answer this, then this, then this, then this. So I would have done my whole mathematics, whole e Generaing of what you will ask, what you will not ask, and then have everything, in my opinion,...

...ready. But I'm not Brian, so I've never heard Brian and I they will be the element of surprise and then they'll I get frustrated. Two side a conversation is an element of surprise. Yeah, so I was ignoring the surprise part and then I was angry at Brian. Or why doesn't he think like me? But he's not me. So I think that's the fascination I had and in all situations, whether my parents, whether my sister's were my friends, I was emact expecting them to do what I wanted them to do or imagine them to do, and then I was always disappointed. So when you married these two ideas together, was that a rough transition for you, or was it made everything makes sense, and then it gave you the piece of knowing this is where you belonged in your career. It was a rough transition because you bring in twenty eight, thirty, thirty, five years of baggage, let me put it like that, or way of thinking that you've carried on without knowing what you're getting along. That's right. And then, especially, especially, since it's good stuff. Yeah, the good stuff and right stuff. Right, it's good stuff you're bringing with you. That was useful for you. It's not like you were a gangster for thirty years. You know, I got a start, I gotta stop that stuff now and I got to do this good thing. You were doing some good things. It was just a different way of looking at it. The sight and life was kind to me to give me these opportunities. Start as a computer engineer, then get into project management, program management, relationship manager. Have my doubts, do my Mba and then realize it's about soft skill. But now, as I saw started transition, I went a little bit the other side. So the soft skill has two aspects. So understanding that, understanding that things are not perfect. Is the voice okay, because I hear some Echo, I think it's okay perfect. So we continue. So essentially it has two sides of it. One the world is not perfect and others have their own thinking. But to you also have yourself and you need to understand yourself. So as I moved from my technical, analytical engineering mindset to the other side, I did understand things are not perfect and I started to give others a little bit too much space and I was losing myself. So between two thousand and twelve, or say eleven and fourteen, when I'm finished my Mba, I was changing little bit too much then I should have. So I was like two much quiet, listening too much, not sharing my view too much and kind of getting a or. So it was either or, and there were these tool kids. Either I'm to engineering mine inner, but I was not finding the balance. And then in around two thousand and fifteen, I had the good privilege of working with the manager who wanted to put me or challenge me, because so far I was never challenged. So, before you say about him, did you happen to leave India at all during this time, or did you use did you get some international work experience as well? So that was also a fascinating part. I was lucky to in around two thousand and three, when I got married, to get to South Africa, and that's when this transition also happened. The trigger was because in Asian culture it's about nine to four five or nine to nine, and then you have the home and then it's done. So you don't have too much time to think. And when I went to South Africa I saw that things were different. There was scope for, or opportunity for being yourself, finding yourself, finding people, and that triggered me. And two thousand and three I moved to South Africa and about two thousand and six I moved to Belgium and I've been here since. So Belgium in Europe, okay, so that the opportunities I had because of this transition or this relocation also contributed behind it. And even in one thousand nine hundred and ninety nine I had my first expression. I was in north India. One thousand nine hundred and ninety nine. First job, I went to south of India and I saw a completely different world within India because it was two thousand perimeters of here and it brought about. So around two thousand and three the word culture used to play a lot of part in my sense. So before that it was Matt's science, Physics, chemistry, computers, and then the word culture soft skills started to bring in. Of course they landed in around two thousand and six seven, or started to land in two thousand and six and seven. Yeah, and around two thousand and ten I had my real dilemma. So I did my MBA and after my mba I started to be a little bit too much on the other side. And around two thousand and fifteen, then the aspect was, okay, this is this, this is this, but who am I, because maybe I was moving from this to that. And again, as you said, I was not a gangster. So it's they were good things to leverage here and good things to leverage here. So then I started to develop,...

...and I did. My first big thing was I started to read books, and then first book I listened to was from Mr Bryan Tracy and it's set change your thinking, change your mind, change your life, and it literally did that for me. And since then I've read or listen to about one hundred sixty books and it meant a big change for me and that allowed me to discover myself, know myself no others better, and even improve myself. So then this thing fitted in. Get this is analytical, this is technical, this is me, this is other person, and let's see how the combination can deliver something. It's a really interesting journey, especially since you were so clear minded all the way through, but I was not. I was that gangster, it says. I can make that analogy, but it's really interesting to hear how you were thinking all the way through and you knew specifically what you were doing. Sometimes it was, you know, complicated or confusing of how to balance things out, but you could. You had the wherewithal to know this is what you were going through. It's really interesting. Yeah, but I would say before two thousand and fifteen it was subconsciously, it will not consciously, that I was doing it. Yes, there were something but I never appreciated them, never thought I'm doing so like I did my Mba, but I would never thought I was appreciating myself. But since two thousand and fifteen or sixteen, I also started to bring in the aspect of conscious expectation, conscious change and conscious thinking. So in Belgium, is this where you began your career, or did you start this into privacy and data protection? So my career had about three different blocks. So first five I started in India in one thousand nine hundred and ninety nine, and I was barely in to the technical stuff, and then I had in the technical part, the project management, program management. It was little bit relational soft skills. Then, after my Mba, I did sourcing and Vendor Management, that is, managing companies with which companies work with, and I had the other experience. And in two thousand and fourteen, fifteen, I switched to data privacy. So I had I was fortunate enough to have an opportunity in the bank I was working for and I switched to this data privacy. And as I was doing that, and a few minutes back, as I said, in two thousand and fifteen, I was also on the journey reading books and listening books and I was like how do I leverage my skills, how do I bring the best of me to other people? And then it gave me, came to me that I should write books, I should be more expressive. So I started speaking to people as a public speaker. I also wrote three books in since two thousand and fifteen. And then things started to change and as data privacy also was mixed of technical and the soft skills and everything combined. It needed the hard skills, my technology background, it needed the soft skills and it needed an understanding of law, which was another dimension, which is also interpretative rather than just clear. So it was a good combination of all the things I had done for last fifteen years at that moment. Then the last part, since two thousand and fifteen, I've been in data privacy. So in two thousand and fifteen, what led you? Or was that just natural from what you experience, that would have been the next logical step for you, or was there a reason why you went into data privacy? Well, for good moments you need some bad moments. So that's how it worked. So in two thousand and fifteen I had a tough boss, I call that tough at that time, who challenged me who questioned me, because before that, since I was strong headed, people would not question me and I would get my way. But this was another strong headed person. So when two strong headed people meet, you can imagine what happens and then only one can win. So it's because, in soccer way, I'm married. Just maybe it's just me. No, okay, well, let's not get that part on the air. We know we have bruis every here. Right. So that boss kind of challenged me and in that moment I was on verge of getting fired. So I needed to find something and as I was finding something, I was leveraging all my skills and my network within the bank and I was connecting with people. So I have this idea to get into compliance, regulatory risk management kind of things, because it fitted with me. By outsourcing and working with vendors. I was aware of the risk part through program management. I knew that. So I thought, and somebody said to me, well, compliance is a safe job. They will always have laws and you'll always be busy. And I said, souunds, interesting, why do you want to be in this? This, this being regular,...

...and that's the shot term thinking I had. But as I got into I got the opportunity this. There's a program on data privacy. It's technology. Yeah, I know technology will take care of data privacy, because I was always a quick learner and as I learned it, I understood it's far more than technology. It's far bigger. It's full business, full everything, and it allowed me to flourish. So it was an opportunity driven by a tough boss and a need for or demand for change. So in now being in. So for your five years in data privacy. Yeah, what has been the biggest learning curve just in this sector or in this realm of technology for you? Well, in data privacy the learning has been that there are so many laws and there are so many people. Everybody has an opinion and everybody can be right, which is the fascinating thing. With the same law, if ten people read it, they will have ten different opinions and all ten of them can be right. Is that and does that then get frustrating or is that real relieving to know that ten people can be right? I call it fascinating. So it's not reallyving because sometimes you say how can you say like that, but then you get fascinated, oh, you can think like that as well. Oh Yeah, you can have that interpretation as well, and I don't mean to say all of them will be right, but most of them would be right. And then there may be some who would have slightly off the tangent interpretation which is not correct. But that's fascinates me and that keeps me engaged because, coming from a technology, coming from the soft skills and everything, I can relate to it and I can help people. So Pun it. Then, with that sort of variation, what is difficult about your job? Just like day to day operations, what is hard about going into your work and being, you know, analytical and also Managerio, but also in this very popular area of technology? What is difficult about your job? HMM, that's a good question and if I'm honest, in that privacy job I did not find enough challenge. So what I did about two years ago is, or one year ago more formly, is I became an entrepreneur. So I know the privacy part, I know all this, but I don't know how to set up a business, how to get clients, how to sell well. So now that's the challenging part and the rest is the leverage part. But when I was in data privacy part the challenging part was sometimes I was very clear on things but the organizations would want to do their own way because of political or other reasons, and that frustrated. Being of that kind of annoyed me because I could see how organizations could leverage privacy and make it a competitive differentiation while they were because in an organization, especially large corporates that I worked for, you need to bring everybody together and that, I think, at some point in time, was not something which I was enjoying. I was doing it, I was happy doing it, but I did not enjoy it. So then I thought if I become an independent or a business then my interest is to provide advice more neutrally, because when you're in the company you need to balance out different things and I was not happy balancing out. So that was another challenge I had. So, as if I have my own business and you're saying you're an entrepreneur creating your own business, what is your message to what have you this small, medium larger size businesses that should be considering or taking data privacy more seriously? What is your pitch? What is it that you're saying to them as to why they should take you on board, or at least would it be as consulting or hire you on? What would you say to them so that they can really understand, probably even the value of the data that they have, but also the privacy therein? Yeah, so, so privacy is a complex and abstract topic, but the fun of doing the privacy work is when you align it and associate it with the business for which you are working and also simplify it in their language. Like I was talking to applient this morning and I had a consultant who was complicating it. Article This, law, this, recital this. So they make it complicated. It. Think of the law, and I told him, because I was coaching him, and I said, hey, why not think of the general manager or the CEO who needs...

...this advice and give it to him in his version, so aligned to his business and what he wants to do? And then he said yeah, that makes sense, and I said, but you're not doing that. You're talking about law, article number, this, recital number this says, and I said use using ten terms which are so complicated. Would he know them? He said No. I said then why use it? So essentially, my coming back to what's my value proposition is I make privacy simple and manageable. So simple and manageable in the language of business. So anybody, any business who works with me, I talk their language while keeping my privacy knowledge in the background and helping them do their business. And I do this in three ways. One is I consult them advice. I'm second is I trained their staff, because they need to be trained, coached in their language, like a chat needs to be taught privacy in their language, requirement, in precorement language, IDN language. So that's what I do. And if they have people in the company who have to be coached, like in the morning, this gentleman, so they have a privacy person, but the person understands a lot more. And then there's a kind of slight gap between business and legal and I can bridge that gap. So my proposition, my value add is I make it simple and manageable and relevant for all parties. So, as you put it, look at what you used to do in just doing Dan a privacy now venturing out on your own. What is what is the joy, what is the excitement that you get out of doing this new aspect versus you know, it wasn't challenging for you. What you were doing previously. Now this would be venturing out on your own. This is a big step. So there's a lot of challenge. But what do you like out of this challenge that you're now facing? I think one of the challenges getting clients, attracting clients, convincing clients and also making sure that I'm more sharp and more crisp into terms of my propositions to clients. So that's the fun part of it. And there's also the dependence independence to think, produce, create and provide inputs, so you're not bound by any restrictions or any political agenda like now. I last month I started creating my privacy courses, online privacy courses. So it was a matter of saying, okay, I want to do that. Who Do who will be my audience? What do I see? How do I sell them? What do I do? And then creating it. Of course there's always the surprise element in life. I thought I would create a course every three or four days and then I realize no, it every two or three weeks. So you learn and that's the challenge and you need to get used to it. And then I thought, okay, I'll make a post on linkedin and it will start to sell. But it doesn't work like that. So there's the challenge. But the motivation factor is the independence, the freedom and the joy of helping people. At this time with covid people, from what I see, you may see differently, is technology should be growing. More people are using their computer, they're staying home. That's my perspective. Is that mean there's a demand for you? There's a greater demand for it professionals that a privacy experts such as yourself. Is this becoming a demand or because of covid things are many people who I've interviewed over the last month they've lost a lot of business speakers, authors and such, but yours is helping the back ends be better. So are you able to grow during these times? I think it's a mix of both. In about mid June one of my primary clients ended their contract. I had a little bit of like you know, have the primary income, yes, kind of flowing down stopping, and now things are starting to pick up because I adapt it to the model and now I'm providing online courses, online coaching and things like that. But essentially, in the modern world that we're talking in, the COVID era if we call it a pandemic way, it's going to be a mix of technology and soft skills. So we do need these zooms, the Microsoft team, Google and so on as technologies, but behind it your soft skills become even more important. Yes, data privacy is important, but the softer part of the skills is even more important because when somebody's in front of you, it's easy to say hey, listen to me. Now somebody puts a screen off and you don't know if he's watching or playing or eating or maybe gone for a toilet break and put it on mute, and that's where your communication, engagement and softer skills have a larger role to play. So you need to connect with people in their minds now, not they're...

...far away. Right now, we're speaking. Okay, I can see you, you can see me, and that's fine. But if I put my self on mute, and I mean again, in a two person meeting, it's the challenging. But whennother ten people I put it on mute, I stop my video, who knows what I'm doing? That's where the softer skills up going to play a little bit more role than before. And yes, technology would be the enabled well, I'm glad to hear that your business is still growing rather than and I think you're in a you picked it, you know, when you were in your s. You picked an industry that, and I was thinking of this, just actually think of it every couple days, of what is a good industry to be in when stuff like this happens, covid in particular, and what kind of industries will be protected against these sort of instances, and I think technology in this sense is one of them, unlike a restaurant or something. Do you have a go ahead, please? These go ahead, I was going to say. was just going to say, do you have any warnings for just the general person about their own data, their own privacy, things that they do, that they take for granted on a on a regular basis, what they should and shouldn't do? Just I mean, people give you those tips once in a while, but we don't always listen, I think. But you being an expert, you might have a couple of tips or people to not read over the terms of conditions. They're just second of thing and keep on going. Yeah, I think the two things. Before I get to that, I was about to say, yes, there's an impact because of covid because of pandemic, but it is on every industry. Some industry have a positive impact and some have a negative impact. But when you look at the larger level, the world level, it's always in balance. So few years ago we were saying it's technology, it's robot takes, its AI and so on, artificial intelligence and so on. And now when they say can you use rubbert takes or artificial intelligence to solve the pandemic, and they say no, because we need data. So every industry has its own limitations and benefits. Yes, the restaurant industry, the hospitality industry and travel industry is hit hard. So they need to pivot, they need to find something else. But for others, yes, they are booming, but in overall life is always in balance. It may look like out of balance, but it will find its balance and the world is changing for good in my opinion. But coming to the data privacy part of it, which was your primary question. So yes, as an individual we should take ownership of our information and be careful where we are leaving it and what we are doing with it. Like typically, each website, when you go there, they throw you a pop up and saying give me your name and email and we will send you letters. But before that, watch out. Ask Yourself, do you really need that? So put a value on your email and your name and don't distribute it freely. And when you're receiving those emails, mask emails again, look at if you really read them, if you really need them, and if don't need them, unsubscribe them and put a value on your data, because when something is free, you are the product. People say tend to think, oh, it's a free newsletter. Well, no, it's not a free newsletter. You give your name and email and then they start bombarding you with your emails. You may find value in it, you may need it, but you're paying with your name and email and that has value for them. That's an interesting way. You put it on data, put value on your information, don't distribute it freely. Yeah, when it's free, you are the product. Yes, you are the problem. It's scary too. Yeah, I mean it's challenging to because people say Gmail or Youtube. Now you're watching Youtube for free. That's how it looks like for a normal person, but behind it every few minutes you're getting an advertisement. So they are making money because you're watching the watching it and now there's a paid version of it in which you pay because they make their money and you watch it for without ads. But in the first version you are the product. In second, second one, it's the money that's paying them. So they need their money to provide you youtube. You let them have it to ads or to your data or throw your money. I would like to have been in that conference room that day. Hey, we can just charge them advertisements. And then so I say, Hey, if they pay us, we won't charge them advertise. It's like both we got them both ways. What is it? What is it typical day look like for you? Maybe a transition from being an entrepreneur, but what does it look like for you? And how would people get into your...

...industry? I mean, you just spoke of twenty five years of experience and how it came about, but how would you give advice for people who want to do the thing that you're doing or get into the line of work, whether it's specifically in privacy and data protection or within the IT Fel? What is your because growing up, I miss the boat, I think on the IT and other people, I think deserve the right to know how not to miss the boat. Yeah, I think when you talk about being in privacy or id it's about knowing what you want to do, finding that, finding the right training and everything. And I call it the leverage learn and launch so fast, is look back at what you are good at, what you do, what are your skills, what are your strengths, what are your values, and make an inventory of that. That is, know yourself, because otherwise few years later you will regret it, and it's not easy when you're young, but kind of find an inventory of who you are and what your strengths are. And people tell me I don't have experience, but if you don't have experience, you still have past a few years, and in that years you've done something. So look at that. What did you enjoy? Then? The second step, I call it, is now that you're leveraged on your past experience, you need to learn and to learn is okay, I want to be here, these are the skills I will use. What do I need? What do I miss between the current level and the future level? Make a plan and make additions. Maybe you need to do an MBA, maybe you need to do a privacy course, maybe you need to do it engineering course and do those certification, do those learnings. So you learn, and it may be soft skills also, and see you need to learn with the job, outside the job. So you learn and when you have leveraged and learned, you have a platform to launch yourself into your dream career, on new new career. It may be in privacy, it may be anywhere. So I call it the three L model. Leverage, learn and launch. Leverage from your past, learn for your future and then launch into your future. Leverage, leverage, learn and launch. That's great. Put it. What about I mean we're talking it, but it applies to any field. But what about someone that's a little discourage now, maybe covid maybe they lost a job, a young kid that didn't have the same thought process that you had? What sort of advice would you give, say, to a child looking to get into university or college or certain sharing their way in the workforce? What sort of advice would you give them or suggestions just to encourage them? For sure. I think one of the beauties of life is it's always in balance. We ten we have the bias or the judgment of seeing one side or the other. So the glass is always half full and half empty. It's just our perceptions. In those moments, like when you lose a job or when you have things not going your way, you tend to look at the empty part of it. But there's also the other side of it which is full. And when we are in good spirits and we say everything is fine, like six months ago, seven months ago and stocks were going up and people were saying we are in another boom and this is going to happen and that's going to happen, then also there were things which were negative, but we were not realizing it. So it's a matter of where we are putting focus. But life is always in balance. So never disheartened, never give up and always stay focused on finding both sides. When you find both sides, you are in balance, but when you look at one side you are out of balance. So even when you think things are perfect and nothing is wrong in your life, find out what's wrong, because if you're not finding it, you're missing out on the balance because you're getting biased and the other way now. And the beauty of human mind is we are comfortable and we can find easily the negative side of it and difficult to find it positive. So we can focus on either side when things are going perfect. We say everything is perfect, nothing is wrong in my life. There are things. If you focus on them, you'll stay in balance and that moment we are on that side and in the negative situation, which is basically our own mindset and all what we are thinking. He said job has gone nothing is going well, like I talked about two months ago, I lost my main client and my main revenue. Yes, I but you have always two choices. So life is in balance, but you have two choices. One choice is to be despondent, angry, frustrated and zo on. If you do that, the chances are even if you find success, even if you find opportunities, the opportunity would miss you. MMM. However, if you stay balanced or stay open to opportunities, there's an opportunity, there's a chance that you will match, you will get the hit more easily and more correctly. And even more important, whether you get the opportunity...

...or not, because it sounds philosophical, whether you gehit the opportunity or not, you would have enjoyed the time more by being open to opportunities then being frustrated. So being frustrated, you'll make the time longer and you will miss chances and by being positive you will create chances and, at the very least, be happy and still be able to live through with the positives you have. That's my opinion. You know, it's a good opinion and many. I mean we experience people like that all the time and we have a temptation to do that as well, is to get discouraged or be too puffed up, thinking, Oh, look how great my life is. Pun It. How how do you rest? Getting yeah, getting away, pushing the computer away maybe, or maybe it's playing a video game. But what is it you do to rest, to get away from your work? What I've learned over the years is if you are working on your passion, if you're working on things which you love, then the thing itself is giving you rest and pleasure and you don't need to find moments of you know, breaks, I'm or relaxation. Yeah, but having said that, it's definitely important to switch your mind to alternative things. So like now, I think, if I look at it, in last eight weeks, I would have had one day off. But yeah, I mean as an entrepreneur, and I'll also starting, and it's not I had one day off and even in that one day a client emailed me and I need you to spend half an hour or one hour, and I was talking to my son. It's not easy being an entrepreneur till you have a few people with you. But the bottom line is if you love what you're doing, if you enjoy what you're doing, you will not count the hours and then you will not need to relax. So that's one side of it. But second side is how do you still keep things in balance? So spend time with people whom you love, spend time with family and take time for yourself. Take time a little bit to say what am I doing? Is this going in the direction I want? And, okay, what's not going well and how do I fix it? So what I do is every morning I do an hour in which I focus, refocus my energies. I do a bit of meditation, bit of Cold War, cold water shower or jump into the cold pool, things like that, and then channelize my energies and look at what do I want to achieve, where am I and where do I want to go, and is it going in that direction? And always the answer is yes, but slowly. Okay, but then I realize it's me, not the situation. So it's my expectation wherein I want to be quicker, faster and better, but things will take time. So, in short, find the balance and do things in which you don't need to find as if you're working. Right now we're having this podcast and I don't feel like I'm working. I'm enjoying the conversation. If I'll get into a podcast where no doing a podcast, I'm uncomfortable and I have to be very precise and I'm reading from my notes, then that would start to feel work. But here I'm speaking what I feel like, what I think like, and you're asking what you think like. So that's the fun part of its. Find The fun part, find the sweet spot. Then balance it out with other activities like learn about a lot about yourself and spend time with family. And the third thing is refreshed. Re Charge yourself in the morning and evening. Like when a shop opens, they have a day opening and day ending sentiment. MMM, same thing you should have for yourself. Five Minute Day closing and about thirty to forty five minute day start. That's a good way to look at it too. I never thought of that. Open and close for yourself a couple more questions before we go for Shure. Who in it? Thinking back when you avoid it, being an architect with all your might, getting into chemical engineering and even things when you were younger, all the way up till now. And how has work, and you mentioned work, is your passion, something that you love to do, so it doesn't seem as though it is work. How has worked so thinking of listeners who? When I was younger, I did not think that work was that important or it was not as necessary for me. And then we get married, we have children, we realize there's other things, other aspects we have to take into consideration, where there's people, as I said, who may be discouraged. How has work been? That a constant in your life? How is work brought you through life so far? I think I've been lucky and fortunate enough to have my options. I mean, I didn't do anything great to go from architecture to chemical in five minutes. It's so happened. It was life. I was not wise enough to get...

...from chemical to a it or from within technology into project management, of within project management to program management, or get into vendor management or into pry. So yes, I was anxious, I was hungry, I was enthusiastic and I was open, but it's the fascination of being in this universe that allowed me to experience those experiences. So I I may feel I did something, but I don't think I have done anything in that. It just so happened and in those moments I had the good reflex, good fortune, good luck to react responsibly. Well, it's also, I mean a point without saying is, well, a lot of people worry in stress. Yeah, ank and get depressed about that moment that's not yet here. Yeah, and as you're saying, is it's kind of moment by moments. Sum Is Luck, some is you know, you're just being at the right place at the right time. Your persistent, you had the skills to back it up. And so for people that are listening, is, you know, do what you can do, especially now, if you're in a downtime, do some things that you can do. Don't worry about the future. Just replace yourself in the right spot right but don't tell me that it's easy, because I have been through the other side before. Two Thousand and twelve I would worry a lot. I would worry very, very little things. I would say, okay, I applied for an NBA. Now what will happen? Will they get me? Will they not get me? Now they've got me. Oh, I must taken so everything is fine. They've taken my given me the opportunity. I can subscribe and I should subscribe. Maybe they have given some five more extra people and then if I don't apply now, they will take it away. So maybe if you pay the fee now. So I would worry unnecessarily and forget about the bad situations. Then I was the champion in a worrying but then over time, between two thousand and twelve and fifteen, and especially after fifteen, reading some books and having influence from coaches. Yes, I learned to manage stress and I learned that unnecessarily spending your energy on worrying will not yield you anything. Yes, I want under clients, but hundred clients this month. But just by worrying I will not get it. So rather I let it be and do what I'm good at without worrying about and it's not easy, I tell myself every day. But every one in ten, twenty days it so happens that I start to worry. But then the process of, as I said, reflecting our day start and day and you say what's up in here, and asking yourself the question, which how are you feeling? Now? We ask others, how do you feel? But do we ask ourselves? How do you feel? And that's a very powerful question. How do I feel? And first time you don't want to answer, but when you take time and get it deep, you realize this is making me anxious. Why is this making me anxious? Okay, okay, I want this. So what can I do about it? I can't do anything about it. Oh, okay, I have to wait, so let me wait. So it's a process, it's a journey and it's not easy. It is easy to get frustrated and sometimes we don't get time. And this pandemic is a blessing for people to get used to themselves, get used to being themselves and if you take that opportunity, take that chance, because we are most of us are not traveling, most of us are working from home, so we have those extra hours. So, yes, use a few of them for sleeping, but use a few of them for working with yourself and improving yourselves. This is great, Puny Batty. How can people reach you? How can they find you? How can they call you? For counseling and consultation. The best way is go to Linkedin and find me with my name Punibatia, or I'm also on instagram and twitter, and for the traditional channels, my email is Info I nfo, act punit, partiercom. So reach out to me and I can always help you when it I have one final question. Is there anything else that you wanted to add that's along the line of work or even your own work? Well, as I said, I was didn't bring my old self who had engineered Hundredzero permutation and said this is what Brian would ask. So I had come with an open mind to have an open conversation, which I have had, and I think I'm very happy to have spent time with you and be part of your show. So thank you so much for having me and thank you so much for launching this podcast, because it brings a lot of joy and a lot of spontaneity, spontaneous conversation then heart to heart conversations to people. That is...

...my hope and I appreciate it. Tune it. One final question. Why do you work? Why do I work? Hmm, I think there are many elements to it's not just one and it is more philosophical, but that's how it is. We are living and we all need the money aspect of it. So there's that one reason. But for that you can do a job, you can be an entrepreneurs, you can be whatever. So we all need money to survive. You can always say money is not important, but that's one part of it which pays our bills. The second art is I love to help people and that's why I consult, I give advice. So that's the second part and the third part is if I don't do anything, I will get stale and I will not be relevant, because if you're not growing, you're dying, if you're not acting. Basically, if you say static, the law of inertia comes in. So rather be in the law of momentum, that is, keep working, working, working. So that's another reason. It's what those three reasons to achieve my goals, some of which are money related, to meet people and help people and also do something which fits into those two objectives, that is, leverage my skills to help people and achieve my targets. Put it betty, thank you, kind sir. You've been nice scholar, scholar and a gentleman, and I appreciate your wife, leasure. You can all the best with your show. You do have a heart for people and you have a mind to help us, and I thank you very much. Thank you so much. Thank you for listening to this episode of why we work with Brian v be sure to subscribe, follow and share with others so they too can be encouraged in their work. I hope that you have yourself a productive, be a joyful day in your work.

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