WhyWeWork BrianVee
WhyWeWork BrianVee

Episode 33 · 1 year ago

#33 Punit Bhatia Privacy Expert Author Speaker BrianVee Whywework

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

Punit Bhatia   

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Websites humanr.nl/nl/results/nieuws-events/nieuwsitem/article/indische-iters-veroveren-lage-landen-aziatische-ict-bedrijven-willen-dichter-bij-grote-klanten-we.html (in media)  

punitbhatia.com (Personal Website)  

Phone +32483118055 (Mobile)  

Email punitworld@gmail.com  

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Be an effective DPO: https://a.co/1nilN7O

Intro to GDPR: A Plain English Guide to Compliance: https://a.co/gsReR0P

Be Ready for GDPR: Let us check your readiness for General Data Protection Regulation (GDPR): https://a.co/cHmKFfP  

About 

"Are you looking for a privacy consultant who can help your company in compliance with privacy laws like GDPR, CCPA, and so on? I have done so many times including: 

1. In a European Bank, I defined, designed and implemented a privacy compliance roadmap inline GDPR and group policy in collaboration with business and IT stakeholders 

2. In a large European bank with operations in 30 plus countries, I created a privacy strategy, monitoring framework and guided privacy professionals across retail and wholesale operations 

3. In a global manufacturing company, I created a privacy policy for operations in 60+ countries, facilitated an investigation with authority and trained business to create privacy awareness and knowledge amongst staff If you want results like above, please contact me.  

I am also an author of books like "Be Ready for GDPR" (Listed as #1 ebook on GDPR all-time list) and "Intro to GDPR" (Listed as #9 ebook on GDPR). If you need a speaker for your next event, I can help you engage audiences as a speaker."

Welcome to why we work with your hostand Brian Vige as he speaks to people like you from all over the world, as wetogether dive deeper into our motivations struggles, joys, seeminglymisstepswarnings and advice, which will be an encouragement to us all nd to getu get going and keep on working. workingsgood. Now here's your house towhy we were Drinmii am Brian via why we work, andtoday I have a great pleasure of speaking witn punit Batia. Now this manis an expert in his field. It is going to be a very, very interestingconversation to say the least. He is a privacyexpert, he's an author, a speaker and the books that he has written, such asbe an effective DPO, which is a data protection officer or be ready for GDPR,which a general data protection regulation. This is pretty deep stuff, but it's good to learn. Data protection is important, so let'shave a listen of this man's journey with workhiembrivy, and this is why we work today have the great pleasure ofspeaking to you today with Mister punit Batia good day, find Sir Hello tranks for having me here andthanks for the good work you do, Brian in this spotcast. Thank you, sir, andthe work that you do, which I was just mentioning to you, the field of whichthat you are working in. I think it will be best described by you butyou're in the privacy, the the behind the computer, that we always see Dadaprotection privacy and how people can work in those industries how people canbe protected. Can you give a little short description about what it is? Youdo that's an interesting question, so youdisc som det up very well. We are living in a modern world and in themodern world, it's all about data like now. We are recording potcast and youknow my name. I know your name. We have each other's email, but that's with allgood interest. You want to help me. I want to help you and we're exchangingthat information, but then sometimes it so happens that there is not the goodinterest, but people get access to our data access to our information, soprotecting that information and making sore that the information is being usedfor the right purposes, his privacy and how we do that is. There are mmany manythings that are rules for that there are guidelines, there are securitythings and there are organizational things, but I would leave that out.Essentially, it is about allowing people to have the right or the freedomto choose what they want to share and with who they want to share and- andthat is knowing now with facebook- and all these other places that grab yourinformation. Then you wonder, is it just sit in a cabinet somewhere or isit being used, or you know, with hackers and all that, but before we maybe touch on that a little bit later? Can You bring me back way back to when you were a child orwhen you would have gotten your first job like so you're here now? And youknow this is a big area of controversy. Thisis a big area of interest for people nowadays. But what were you thinkingway back when you got your first job and what was it hm? That's about twenty twenty oneyears ago, so it was back in Osand, nine hutdred and ninety nine. When Igot out of my college, I think it was end of May t, nineteen and ninety nine,and that moment I just passed out of enginering, and I completed myenginering and sorry where, where are you from imagineot India, SOI'm India, not atBot ofin at t, O Thousand and twenty one? That is your first paying job isthat is that a normal thing in India? That's normal in Korea, where I I amnow so a lot of people do not work at all until they finish college but beingfrom Canada in the United States, North America, that's not as common wherekids would get a job at twelve thirteen fourteen fiften, you know doing smallthings ye I was lucky. I didn't need to work till. I was out of college okay E,which was in n, N, nine hunded and ninety nine middle of it. Until then, Ihad not had any job hat for the first...

...time. The choice was: do I go for amaster's degree or do I go for a job? Okay, I chose to go for a job and then you probably know it, because that'show it is in most Asian countries you tend to follow the crowds you tend tofollow the way everybody's doing it. So everybody was either going for masters,degree or the job, and I chose to go for the job and then you I got into something calledinformation technology, so what we call it or computers. So I started there andI don't know if you want me to walk you to entire journey, but that's what Idid in nineteen. Ninety, nine, two thousand R, an three. I do one! Sorry!I do want you to walk through that journey 'cause. I think it isinteresting, but you mentioned that you were following in nineteen nd. Ninetynine. I came from a university that just before that started to bringcomputers into their classroom, which is you know, nineteen, a ninety, six NeTNINE uteen and ninety nine. It's a pretty new thing compared to now, whereeveryone carries a computer in their hand, but you may ind you werefollowing: was there any motivation of your own to get your first job opposedto starting your masters degree? What was what was the motivation driving youat that time? 'cause now you're a young man right, so it's not well. You know Ijust want to buy some hockey cards or some cricket cards or anything likethat. What was the motivation at that time tonot pursue the Masher's degree and get into it? So the motivation was, I wanted to bein the workforce and I had a feeling that when you 're in there the numberof yeurs starts counting. That's how I used to think at that time. So Ithought, if I start, nineteen, ninety nine and in two thousand and one whensomebody has completed their masters degree. I would be two years ofexperience rather than starting in the job force, so that was the motivation,and I said I can always do my masters a few years later, because some peopletold me when you'd have five six seven years of experience, and then you doyour masters. You can leverage that master's better because youhaveexperience and then you understand and that's what I did in about two thousandand nine. I joined on MBA m that that's did you have any advice? You mentioneda little bit there, but the thinking of well, I'm not going to pursue thismasters, because that will be two strikes against me in starting in myemployment. was there anyone in like family or friends or just students orsome buddies? That said hey this is the path or, as that, just something youthought of on your own. I mean there wasn't the formal coaching as wecall it like hombodycoming and coaching, but yes, like most Asian cultures, there wasthis sculture that family friends, relatives everybody would give. Youadvice roter theres too much of advice a like that, and you really need tochoose what you want, and I was the one who was a little bit more andindependence. Some called it stubborn, but I calle it the independent Uy whowoild decide for himself, so I was like okay, I want to be independent and Iwant to be starting my job first and I was also fascinated by the computerspart of it. So I did my chemical engineering and one went into computers.Of course I had done a diploma alongside it, so I had experienced itand that fascinated me and that's what I started so as you got in there. What was the reason for chemicalengineering? That was another story that Wascall it destiny, call it Lucall it accident, diferent, Aon, engineer, Yeah Yeah, because the way itwas when I passed out my twelfth exam, so in India, it's like after twelve,you go to college. So when I did my high school, you needed to appear in anall over Inio exam and you used to get a rank so based on that rank, you wouldget into a college and you'll get a choice of a degree. So I was, I was inthe Qu and they were finishing up all the engineerings and then it was you'regoing to get into architecture, and I said no five years no way. I havenothing to do with architecture and then it so happens. Somebody in frontof the CE pulled out and they had one position which landed with me. He Saiit's chemical enginering. I said: Okay Anyhow, I don't know, what's thedifference between Chemical Mechanical Electrical Engineer, but it is not fiveyears and it is an engineering. So let's do that so I did it literallylike that without much knowledge or information about chemical and when Igot in, I found that it was a bit challenging of Inetanchemicals chemistry and so on Il I mean Iwas, either a Mathematacian or aphysician or more in between. I mean not the physician of the doctor. Thephysics sky and chemical was in between so inthen in paralelided, thiscomputer's diploma- and I said Hm so in...

Indiathe trend was, if you have anenginering, you can get to computers whatever ingenering. That sounds good. Let's complete thischemical engeneraing and get me. Let me get into this h the field of computers, so that ishow it happened. was that a hard transition for you was I completelydifferent or was there some similarities in how they approachedideas and theories mean there were a few commonalitiesbecause, as an engineer, Youre hard wire to think analytically, MHM and in computers, that's what you needso essentially two plus to is always four and that's what you're taught inmathematics and engineering and your thought to think in patens. Soit workedwell but as I started to evolve as I started to work in that, I realizedthat it was getting too analytical too technical. Even for my comfort Bot,then, as I had more and more opportunities than I switched jobs, Irealized that there was this soft side of technology, so you can either be ahardcoart professional who sits behind the PC and dos Goding, or you can be aproject manager who has to Leazo who has to talk who has to buildrelationships, understand others perspective and communicated to others.So that's where I got fascinated with and then project management,relationship, management, sales management and program management, andI said hmthat sounds interesting, but then I had a voyre wild, meaning 'cause. In my heart I was in my head. I was e analytical Guy Mhm, just to as alwaysfor, but in the management. OPLUS too could be anything it's people thing. It depends on whothe person is in front of you and that's fascinated me and then I waslike doubting myself. Is My head right or Hart right in my heart? I was thepeeple person in my head. I was the analytical guy and I needed to marrythe two. So I went into Mbaand to just to validate how to managers actand then I understood management is an art. It's not a science. I've done thescience and now it's the art which I'm into, and that was a big revolution,because I understood about communications and the art of not beingperfect. So done is better than perfect philosophy like that or you need togive people space and then I started learning about sympathy, andpithy, softskills, so from hard skills I moved to softskills with those softskills. wasthere some influence in your life to realize that this is important, becausewith those hardskills, some people, whether they realize the soffskills areimportant, they will be more anlytical they'll, just study the numbers and notbe that more compassionate sympathetic manager that you seem to have a heartdesire for, while still appreciating the numbers, was there some influencegrowing up that led you to have that heart for people I don't know. I never put that intoperspective, but ie had a feeling that what I was doing in my analytical wars,because the society or the situation demanded. So, while in the more people side of it, that wassomething I enjoyed more so kind of improving myself discovering why othersthink what they think understanding who they are, what they want to do. Sothat's the side which fascinated me, but if I look back, if I see what do wesay thirty years ago, W at twenty fiveyears ago, I still have this fascination of by things work the waythey work. I never paid attention to it. I was always a thinker. I was alwaysthinking too much, but I misused that thinking energy because I was doing itin an analytical way without paying respect that humans are humans and youcan't apply science on them so in which way were you applying it to humans? Soto me, it still sounds a little m one off for me to understand how you,how you saw it your potential in what work you weregoing to do to apply to people and how maybe that leads rat into what you donow, but how was it touching the people's hearts in their lives? So I have this tendency TT, let Ya! I'mtalking to you, I would overexaggerate if I'm in nineteen, ninety nine orbefore even say before, two thousand and ten ntill I had done my mb. I willoverthink and imagine okab Brian would ask me this. Then I would answer thisthen this then this an so I would have done my whole mathematic, wo andgeneraling of what you will ask what you will not ask and then...

...have everything in my opinion ready,but I'm not gring. So I never heard Brian and I there will be the elementof surprise and then they'll I get frustrated. I. The two side ofconversation is an element of surprise yeah. So I was ignoring the surprisepart and then I was angry at Brian Orwhy doesnanythink like me, but he'snot me. Oh, I think fascination I had and in all situations wherher myparents wether my sisters were my friends. I was INA expecting them to dowhat I wanted them to do or imagine them to do, and then I was alwaysdisappointed. So when you married these two ideas together, wh was that a roughtransition for you or was it made everything make sense, and then it gaveyou the peace of knowing. This is where you belonged in your career. It was a rough transition because you bring in O thoeand y eight thirtythirty five years of paggage. Let me put it like that or way of thinkingthat you've carried on without knowing what you're getting along that's right and then at hous. They,especially since it's good stuff, the good stuff and rides right. It'sgood stuff, you're bringing with you that was useful for you. It's not like.You were a gangster for thirty years. You know I go. I got TA. I gotta stopthat stuff now and I gotto do this good thing. You were doing some good things.It was just a different way of looking at it. HRIGHT MR wintow and life waskind to me to give me these opportunities start as a computerengineer, then get into project management, program management,relationship manager. Have my doubts. Do my m B and then realize it's aboutsoft skill, but now, as I is a started transition, I went a little with theother side, so the soft skill has two aspects so understanding that understanding that things are notperfect is the vice okay, because I hear someEcho, I think it's okay perfect. So wecontinue so essentially it has two sides of it. One the world is notperfect and others have their own thinking, but too. You also haveyourself and you need to understand yourself. So, as I moved from mytechnical analytical engineering mindset to the other side, I didunderstand things are not perfect and I started to give others a little bit toomuch space and I was losing myself so between two thousand and twelve oSaeleven and fourteen then I finished my m b. A Mi was changing a little bittoo much than I should have so I was like too much quiet listening too much,not sharing my view too much and kind of getting, or so it was either or- and there werethese two kids either I'm too engineering Minino, but I was notfinding the balance and Thenin around two thousand and fifteen. I had thegood privilege of working with the manager who wanted to put me or challenge mebecause so far I was never challenged. So before you say about him. Did youhappen to leave India at all during this time? Or did you did you get someinternational work experience as well? So that was also a fascinating part. Iwas lucky to in around two thousand and three when I got married to get toSouth Africa and that's when this transition also happened. That triggerwas because in Asian culture, it's about ninety five or ninety nine andthen you'll have thehome, and then it's done so you don't have too much time tothink and when I went to South Africa I saw that things were different. Therewas scope for opportunity for being yourself finding yourself findingpeople, and that triggered me and two thousand and three I moved to SouthAfrica and about two thousand and six. I moved to Belgium and I've been heresince to Belgium and Europe, okay, so that the opportunities I had because ofthis transition or this relocation who also contributed behind it and even inNineteen D. Ninety nine- I had my first expression. I was in north India, ninehunded, ND, ninety nine first job. I went to south of India and I saw acompletely different world within India because it was two thousand helrmitersa a here and it brought about so around two thousand, an three. The wordculture used to play a lot of part, in my sense so before that it was matts,science, physics, chemistry, computers and then the word culture. Soft skillsstarted to bring in, of course, they landed in around two thousand and sixseven or started to land in two thousand and six and seven, and aroundtwo thousand and ten I had my real dilema. I did my NBA and after my m BIIstarted to be a little bit too much on the other side and around two thousandand fifteen. Then the aspect was okay. This is this. Thisis this, but who am I because maybe I was moving from this tothat and again, as you said, I was not a gangster, so it's they were goodthings to leverage here and good things to laverage here. So then I started todevelop and I did my first big thing...

...was: I started to read books and thenfirstbook. I listened to was from Mr Brian Tacy andit's a change. Youare thinking change your mind. OCHANGE Your Life Mhm and itlittally did that for me and since then I read listened to about one sixtybooks and it meant a big change for me and that allowed me to discover myselfnor myself, no others better and even improve myself. So then this thingfitted in this is analytical. This is technical. This is me, this is theother person and let's see how the combination can deliver something.That's a really interesting journey, especially since you were so clearminded all the way through, but I was not. I was that gangstersays I can make that analogy, but it's it'sreally interesting to hear how you were thinking all the way through, and youknew specifically what you were doing. Sometimes it was you know, complicatedor confusing of how to balance things out, but you could you had thewherewithal to know this is what you were going through. It's reallyinteresting, but I would say before two thousand andfifteen it was subedconsciously. It was not consciously that I was doing it.yesthere ware some things, but I never appreciated them, never thought I'ndoing so like I did my m Ba, but I never thought I was appreciating myselfB T since two thousand and fifteen or sixteen I also started to bring in theaspect of conscious expectation, conscious change,unconscious thinking. So in Belgium is this where you beganyour career, or did you start this into privacy and in data protection? So my career had about three differentblocks, so first fie I started in India, Ne Hoand, nine udred and ninety nineMHM and I was porly into the technical stuff and then I had in the technicalpart, the Project Management Progra Managin wit, was little bith relationalsoft skills. Then after my M B I did sourcing andvendor management that is managing companies with which companies workwith, and I had the other experience an intwo thousand and fourteen fiften. I switch to data privacy, so I had. I wasfortunate enough to have an opportunity in the bank I was working for and Iswitched to this data privacy and, as I was doing that and a few minutes back. As I said in twothousand and fifteen, I was also on the journey reading books and listeningbooks, and I was like how do I leverage my skills? How do I bring the best ofme to other people and then it cam me came to me that I should write books. I should be moreexpressive, so I started speaking to people as a public speaker. I alsowrote three books in since two thousand and fifteen, and then things started tochange and, as dataprivacy also was mix of technical and soft skills andeverything combined, it needed the hard skills. My technology background, itneeded the soft skills and it needed an understanding of law, which was anotherdimension, which is also interpretative rather than just clear. It was a goodcombination of all the things I had done for last fifteen years at thatmoment in the last part, since two thousand and fifteen nive been in dataprivacy, so in two thousand and fifteen, what led you or was that just naturalfrom what you experienced? That would have been the next logical step for you,or was there a reason why you went into data privacy? Well for good moments, you need somebad movements. So that's how it worked. So in two thousand and fifteen I had aTouh boss. I called that Tuff at that time who challenged me who questionedme 'cause before that, since I was strong, headed people would notquestion me, and I would get my way, but this was another strong headedperson. So th, when two strong haired people meet, you can imagine whathappens and then only one can win. So it's because INS, I'm married USMAYBE, it's just me, no okay! Well, let's not get that part on the air. We know we are Bruisari here right so that boss kind of challenged me, and inthat moment I was on werds of getting fired. So I needed to find somethingand, as I was finding something I was leveraging all my skills and my networkwithin the bank, and I was connecting with people. So I have this idea to getinto compliance, regulatory risk management, kind of things because itfitted with me by outshourcing and working with vendors. I was aware ofthe risk, PAT through program management. I knew that so I thought-and somebody said to me: WELLCOMPLIANCE is a safe job. They will always havelaws and you'll always be busy, and I said, sounds interesting. Why do youwant to be in this? Is this being...

...regular and that's the shottim thinkingI had whenever I got into? I got the opportunity ther there's a program ondata privacy, S, technology, Iknowtechnology, we'll take care ofDaeta privacy, because I was always a quick learner and, as I learned it, Iunderstood it's far more than technology. It's far bigger, it's fullbusiness, full everything and it allowed me to flourish. It was an opportunity driven by a tough boss and a need for a demandfor change. So in now being it and so for your fiveyears in Dataprivacy y wh, what has been the biggest learning curve just inthis sector or in this this realm of technology, for you well in data privacy. The learning hasbeen that there are so many laws and there are so many people. Everybody has an opinion and everybodycan be right, which is a fascinating thing with thesame law. If ten people read it, they will have ten different opinions andall ten of them can be right. Is that en? Does that then getfrustrating, or is that re relieving to know thatten people can be right? I call it fascinating, so it's notrelieving because sometimes you say how can you say like that? But then h youget fascinated. Oh, you can think like that as well. Oh Yeah, you can havethat interpretation as well, and I don't mean to say all of them will beright. N. Most of them will be right and then there may be some who wouldhave slightly off the tangent interpretation, which is not correct,but that's fascinates me and that keeps me engaged because coming from atechnology coming from these soft skills and everything I can relate toit, and I can help people so pull it, then, with that sort of variation. What is difficult about your job justlike day to day operations? What is hard about going into your work and,being you know, analytical and also managerial, but also in this very popular area of technology? Whatis difficult about your job? That's a good question and if I'mhonest in that privacy job, I did not find enough challege. So whatI did about two years ago is, or one year ago, more formly MHM. I became aninterprenior. I go the privacy part, I know all this, but I don't know how to set up a business, how to getclients how to sell well. So now that's thechallenging part and the rest is the leverage part. But when I was in dataprivacy part, the challenging part was sometimes. I was very clear on things, but the organizations would want to dotheir own way because of political or other reasons, and that frustrated meOw. That kind of annoyed me 'cause. I could see how organizations couldleverage privacy and make it a competitive differenciation while they were in an organization,especially large corprats, that I work for you need to bring everybodytogether and that I think at some point in time was not something which I was enjoying.I was doing it. I was happy doing it, but I did not enjoy it.So then I thought, if I become an independent or a business, then myinterest is to provide advice more neutrally, because when you're in thecompany, you need to balance out different things, and I was not happybalancing out. That was another Joben that I had so as if I have my ownbusiness and you're saying you're an NCREPRENOUR creating your own business.What is your message to what have you, the small, medium largersize, businesses that should be considering or taking debta privacymore seriously? What is your pitch? What is it that you're saying to themas to why they should take you on board, or at least would it be as consultingor hire you on wh? What would you say to them so that they can reallyunderstand, probably even the value of the data that they have, but also theprivacy therein yeah s? Fo Privacy is a complex and abstracttopic, but the fun of doing the privacyworkers when you align it and associate it with the business for which you areworking and also simplify it in their language. Like I was talking to a plintthis morning and I had a consultant who was complicatingit article, this law, this recital this, so they make it complicated, they dthink of the law, and I told him because I was coaching him and I saidHey, why not think of the think of the...

...general manager or the CE O who needsthis advice and give it to him in his version so aligned to his business andwhat he wants to do and then he said yeah that makes sense-and I said, but you're not doing that you're talking about law. ArticleNumber, this recital number thes says, and I sai he's using ten terms whichare so complicated. Would he know them? He said no, I said then whyl use it soessentially. My coming back to what'smy value proposition is I make privacy simple and manageable, so simple andmanageable in the language of business? So anybody any business who works withme. I talk their language while keeping my privacy knowledge in the backgroundand helping them do their business, and I do this in three ways. One is Iconsult them. Advise them Secondis, I train their stuff becausethey need to be trained. Coached in their language, like Achar needs to betaught privacy in their language, procarement and precarnment language,idenitty language, that's what I do and if they have people in Thei Company whohave to be coached like in the morning theres gentlemen, so they have aprivacy perperson, but the person understands a law more and then there'sa kind of slight cap between business and legal, and I can bridge that cap.So my proposition my value ad is I make it simple and manageable and relevantfor all parties. So, as you Pon it look at what you used to do in just doingdata privacy now venturing out on your own. What is what is the joy? What is theexcitement that you get out of doing this new aspect versus you know? Itwasn't challenging for you what you were doing previously now. This wouldbe venturing out on your own. This is a big step, so there's a lot of challenge. But what do you like out of thischallenge that you're now facing dinone of of the challenges, gettingclients attracting clients, convincing clients and also making sure that I'm more sharp andmore crisp into terms of my propositions to clients? So that's thefun part of it and there's also the independence independence to thinkproduce, create and provide inputs, so you're not bound by any restrictions orany political agenda. Like now I last month I started creating my privacycourses online privacy courses, so it was a matter of saying. Okay. I want todo that. Who D? Who will be my audience? What do I? How do I selve them? What doI do and then creating it? Of course, there's always the surprise element inlife. I thought I would create a course every three or four days, and then Irealized, no it every two or three weeks, so you'll learn and that's thechallenge and you need to get used to it. And then I thought okay I'll make apost on link in and it will start to sell, but it doesn't work like that.There's the challenge, but the motivation factor is the independence,the freedom and the joy of helping people at this time with Covin people from what I see you may seedifferently is technology should be growing, more people are using theircomputer they're staying home. That's my perspective, is that mean there's a demand for youthere's a a greater demand for I t professionals, datof privacy expertssuch as yourself is this becoming a demand or because of cove things aremany people who I've interviewed over the last month? They've lost a lot ofbusiness speakers, authors and such, but yours is helping the back ends be better, so areyou able to grow during these times? I think it's a mix of boat in about mid June, one of my primaryclients end did their contract N. I had a little bit of like you know, have thepimly income heis kind of slowing down stopping and now things are starting topick up, because I adopt it to the model and now I'm providing onlinecourses online coaching and things like that, but essentially in the modern world that we're talkingin the KOWID era, if we call it a pandemic wo, it's going to be a mix oftechnology and soft skills. So we do need these zooms, the Mikes of team,Google and so on as technologies. But behind it your soft skills become evenmore important. Yes, data privacy is important, but thesoftes part of the skhols is even more important because when somebody's infront of you, it's easy to say, Hey, listen to me now somebody puts hisscreen off and you don't know if he's watching or playing or eating or maybegone for a toilet, Brak and put it on mute. And that's where yourcommunication, engagement and softer skills have a larger role to play. oYou need to connect with people in...

...their minds now not theyre, far awaylike now, weare speaking, okay, I can see you, you can see me and that' fine,but if I put myself on mute, I mean again in a two person meeting it's challenging, but when I attend people Iput it on mute. I stoppd my video who knows what I'm doing. That's where the softer skills aregoing to play a little bit more role than before, and yes technology wouldbe the enabler I'm glad to hear that your business isstill growing rather than, and I think you'ren you picked it. You know when you were in your twenties. You picked anindustry that- and I was thinking of this- just actually think of it. Everycouple of days of what is a good industry to be in when stuff like thishappens, coved in particular, and what kind of industries will be protected against these sort ofinstances- and I think technology in this sense is one of them. Unlike arestaurant or something, do you have go ahead, please es wod. What I was Gongtosay Wat. I was just going to say: Do you have any warnings for just the general personabout their own data, their own privacy, things that they do that they take forgranted UN on a regular basis, what they should and shouldn't do? Just Imean people give you those tips once in a while, but we don'talways listen. I think, but you being an expert, you might have a couple oftips or people to not read over the terms of conditions or just click onthe thing and keep on going. I think that do thinks before I get tothat. I was about to say yes, there's an impact because of covidbecause of Pandamic, but it is on every industry. Some industry have a positiveimpact and some have a negative impact. But when you look at the larger level,the world level, it's always in balance. So a few years ago we were saying it'stechnology, it's robotics, its AI and so on artificial intelligence and Soong.And now when they say, can we use robertics or artificial intelligence tosolve the ANEMIAN teay? No because we need data, so every industry has itsown limitation and benefits. Yes, the restaurant industry, the hospitalityindustry and travel industry is hit hard, so they need to Piv it. They needto find something else, but for others, yes, they are booming, but in overalllife is always in balance. It may look like out of balance, but it will findits palance and the world is changing for good, in my opinion, but coming tothe dataprivacy part of it, which was a primary question. Yes, as an individual, we should takeownership of our information and be careful where we are leaving it andwhat we are doing with it, like typically each website when you gothere, they throw you a pop up and Sayn. Give me your name, an email, and wewill send you letters, but before that watch out, ask yourself: Do you reallyneed that so put a value on your email and yourname and don't distribute it freely and when you are receiving those emails,Mas emails again, look at if you really heep them, if you reallyneed them and if ou don't need them. UNSUBSCRIBE them and put a value onyour data, because when something is free, you are the product. People, stend to think O. it's a free news letter. Well, no, it's not a freenewsletter. You give your name an email and then they start bombarding you withyour emails. You may find value in it. You may need it, but you're paying withyour name and Emil an that has value for them. That's an interesting way: Proo dataputvalue on your information, don't istribute it freely yeah when it's free, you are theproduct, yes Yu, it's scary, too yeah. I mean it's challenging too,because people say gmal or you to now you're watching Youtube for free,that's how it looks like for an normal person, but behind it every few minutesyou are getting an advertisement, so they are making money because youarewatching watching it and now there's a pair version of it in which you paybecause they make their money and you watch it for without ads. But in thefirst version you are the product in Sec. Second, one: It's the money,that's paying them. They need their money to provide ou up tube you letthem have it through ads or through your data or thro your money, I wouldalike, to have been in that conference. Room that day, hey we can just chargethem advertisements and then so shey. If they pay us, we won't charge them.Avrantise itslike wwe got hem both ways. What is what Os it typical day? Looklike for you maybe transition from being an entrepreneur, but what does itlook like for you and how would people...

...get into your industry? I mean you justspoke of twenty five years of experience and how Ir came about. Buthow would you give advice for people who want to do the thing that you'redoing or get into the line of work, whether it's specifically in privacyand data protection or within the IT field? What is your is growing up? I Imiss the boat, I think on the IT and other people I think, deserve the rightto know how not to miss the boat N. I think when you talk about being inprivacy or it it's wout, knowing what you want to do, finding that findingthe right, trainings and everything- and I call itthe leverage, learn and launch so fust- is look back at what Youare good atwhat you do. What are your skills? What are your strengths? What are yourvalues and make an inventory of that? That is no yourself because otherwise,few years later, you will regret it and it's not easy when you're young, but kind of find an inventory of who youare and what your strengths are. And people tell me I don't have experience,but if you don't have experience, you still have passed a few years and inthat year you've done something. So look at that. What did you enjoy then? The second step I call it is nowthat you're leveraged on your past experience you need to learn and tolearn is okay. I want to be here. These are the skills I will use. What do Ineed? What do I miss between the current level and the future level,make a plan and make additions? Maybe you need to do an m b a maybe you needto do a privacy course. Maybe Y. U know to do a enginering course and do dothose certification do those learnings, so you learn and it may be softskillsalso and see you need to learn with the job outside the job. So you learn andwhen you have leveraged and learnt you have a platform to launch yourself intoyour dream: Gareer, O R, new new career- It may be in privacy, it maybe anywer.So I call it. The three L model leverage, learn and launch leveragefrom your past, learn for your future and then launch into your future.Lavage leverage, learn and launch that's great punwhat about. I meanwe're talking it, but it applies to any field. But what about someone? That's alittle discouraged now, maybe Covit. Maybe they lost a job, a young kid that didn't have the samethought process that you had. What sort of advice would you give say to a childlooking to get into university or college or start starting their way inthe workforce? What sort of advice would you give them or suggestions just to encourage them? Forsha? I think one of the beauties of life is it'salways in balance we and we have the bias or the judgment of seeing one sideor the other, so the glass is always half full and half empty. It's just ourperceptions. In those moments like when you lose a job or when you have thingsnot going your way, you tend to look at the empty part of it, but there's alsothe other side of it, which is fun and when we are in good spirit- and we sayeverything is fine like six months ago, seven months ago, when stocks weregoing up and people were saying, we are in another boom, and this is going tohappen and that's going to happen then also there were things which werenegative, but we were not realizing it. It's a matter of where we are puttingfocus, but life is always imbalance, so never disheartened never give up, andalways they focused on finding both sides. When you find both sides, youare in balance. But when you look at one side, youare out of Balence, soeven when you think things are perfect and nothing is wrong in your life find out what's wrong, because ifyou're not finding it you're missing out on the balance, cause you'regetting biased and the other way now an the beauty of human mind is we are comfortable and we can find easily thenegative side of it and difficult to find it positive. So we can focus oneither side when things are going perfectly SA. Everything is perfect.Nothing is wrong. In my life, there are things if you focus on them. You'llstay in balance, and that moment we are on that side and in the negativesituation, which is basically our own mindset and all what we're thinking iua job has gone. Nothing is going well. Like I talked about two months ago, Ilost my main client and my main revenue. Yes, I, but you have always two choices.Life is in balance, but you have two choices. One choice is to be despondent, angryfrustrated and goon. If you do that, the chances are even if you findsuccess. Even if o find opportunities, the opportunity would miss you. However, if you stayd balanced or stayopen to opportunities, there's a opportunity there's a chance that youwill match. You will get the hit more easily and more correctly and even moreimportant, whether you get the...

...opportunity or not, because it soundsphilosophical, whether you hit the opportunity or not, you would haveenjoyed the time more by being open to opportunities, then being frustrated sobeing frustrated. You'll make the time longer and you will miss chances and bybeing positive, you will create chances and, at the very least, be happy andstill be able to live through with the positives. You have that's my opinion,I you know it's a good opinion and man I mean we experience people like thatall the time and we have a temptation to do that as well, is Ni to getdiscouraged or be too puffed up thinking. Oh, look how great my life is Ponit, how how do you rest getting yeah, getting away, pushing thecomputer away, maybe or maybe of playing a video game? But what is ityou do to rest to get away from your work? What IV learnt over the ears is, if you are working on your passion, ifyou're working on things which you love, then thething itself is giving you rest andpleasure and you don't need to find moments of you, knowmh break Sinow or relaxationah, but having said that, it's definitely important to switch yourminds to alternative things so like now, I think, if I look at it in the lasteight weeks, I would have had one day off, but yeah I mean as an Interpenier, and Ialso starting an it's not easy. I had one day off anyonend that one day, aclient emailed me and I needed to spend half an hour or one hour, and I wastalking to my son- it's not easy, being an intepeer till you have a few peoplewith you, but the bottom line is: If you love what you're doing, if youenjoy what you're doing you will not count the hours and then you will notneed to relax. So that's one side of it. But second side is: How do you stillkeep things in balance so spend time with people whom you love, spend timewith family and take time for yourself take time a little bit to say what am Idoing? Is this going in the direction I want and okay, what's not going well,and how do I fix it? So what I do is every morning I do an hour in which I focus refocus myenergies. I do a bit of meditation bit of gold, water, cold water shower orjump into the cold pool things like that and then chanelize my energies andlook at what do I want to achieve. Where am I and where do I want to go,and is it going in that direction? And always the answer is yes, but slowlyokaybut then I realize it's me, not the situation, so it's my expectation,whereand. I want to be quicker, faster and better, but things will take timeso, in short, find the balance and do things in which you don't need to find,as if you are working liht now weare having this spotcast andI don't feel like I'm working, I'm enjoying the conversation, MHM OwifI'll get into a portcast wher, I'm doing a potcast, I'm uncomfortable, andI have to be very precise and I'm reading from my notes. Then that wouldstart to field work. But here, I'm speaking what I feel like what I thinklike and you're asking what you think, like that's the fun part of it so findthe fun part, find the sweet spot. Then balance it out with other activitieslike learn about a lot about yourself and spend time with family, and thethird thing is refresh recharge ourselves in the morning and eveninglike when a shop opens, they have a day opening and day ending, Celemon MHMsame thing. You should have for yourself five minute day closing andabout therty to forty five minutes. They start that's a good way to look atit too. I never thought of that open and clothes for yourself a couple more questions before we goBucham phoin it thinking back when you avoid it beingan architect with all your might getting into chemical engineering andeven things when you were younger all the way up till now and how has work- and you mention work- isyour passion, something that you love to do so it doesn't seem as though itis work. How has worked so thinking of listeners who, when I was younger, I did not think that work was thatimportant or it was not as necessary for me and then we get married. We havechildren, we realize there's other things, other aspects we have to takeinto consideration where there's people, as I said, who may be discouraged, howhas work been that a constant in your life ow is work, brought you throughlife. So far, I think I've been lucky and fortunateenough to have my options. I mean I didn't do anything great to go fromarchitecture to chemical in five minutes. It so happened. It was life mm.I was not wise enough to get from...

...chemical to it or from withintechnology into projuct management of fithin project management, to programmanagement or get into vender management or enterprise. So, yes, Iwas anxious. I was hungry. I was enthusiastic and I was open, but it'sthe fascination of being in this universe. That allowed me to experiencethose experiences, so I I may feel I did something, but I don'tthink I have done anything in that it just so happened in those moments. Ihad the good reflect good fortune. Good luck to react responsibly. W is also I mean a point without saying.Is a lot of people worry in stress, Yep,Hannock and get depressed about that moment? That's not yet here, Yeh and asyou're saying is it's kind of moment by moment. Some is luck, some, as you know,you're just being at the right place at the right time. You're persistent youhad the skills to back it up and so for people that are listening is you know,do what you can do, especially now. If you're in a downtime do some thingsthat you can do. Don't worry about the future, just try to place yourself inthe right spot right, but don't tell me that it's easy because I have been throughthe other side before two thousand and twelve. I would worry a lot WEAWASWORRI for very, very little things I would say. Ok I applied for an envy andnow what will happen? Will they get me? Will they not get me now? They've gotme I must take, and so everything is fine. They've taken my given me the opportunity I cansubscribe and H I should subscribe. Maybe they have given some five moreextra people and then, if I don't apply now, they will take it o me. So maybeif we have pay the fee now, so I would worry it unnecessarily and forget about the bad situations.Then I was the champion inworring, but then over time, between two thousand andtwelve and fifteen, an especially after fifteen reading some books and havinginfluence from goches. I learned to manage stress and I learned that unnecessarily spending your energy onworrying will not yield you anything. Yes, I won't hunt itclients but orhundred clines this month, but just by worrying I will not get it so ratherthan I let it be and do what I'm good at without wearying- and it's not easy.I tell myself every day, but every one in ten twenty days. It so happensthat I start to worry, but then the process of, as I said, reflecting ourday start and day- and you say what's happening here and askingyourself the question which, how are you feeling now we ask others? How doyou feel, but do we ask ourselves? How do you feed M and that's a verypowerful question? How do I feel and first time you don't want to answer,but when you take time and get it deep, you realize this is makingthe anxious. Why is this making me anxious? Okay, okay, I want this. So what can I doabout it? I can't do anything about it. Oh okay,ive to wait. So let me wait soit's a process, it's a journey andit's not easy. It is easy to get trustrated and sometimes we don't gettime and the SPANDAMIC is a blessing for people to get used to themselves,get used to being themselves and if you take that opportunity takethat chance, because we are most of US- are not traveling most of us and working from home. So we have thoseextra hours, yes use a few of them for sleeping but use a few of them forworking with yourself and improving yourself. This is great punit Ba tea. How can people reach you? How can theyfind you? How can they call you for counseling and consultation? The best ways go to Lington and find mewith my name Ponibatya, or I'm also an instrogram ant trater and for thetraditional channels. My email is in foinfo act, Ponetparty ar tcom soeacout to me, and I can always help you when it. I have one final question: Isthere anything else that you wanted to add that's along the line of work or even your ownwork? Well, as I said, I didn't bring my old self who had engineered ahundred thousand permutation and said this is what Brian would ask so I hadcome with an open mind to have an open conversation which I have had, and Ithink I'm very happy to have spent time with you and be part of your show. Sothank you so much for having me and thank you so much for launching thisportcast, because it brings a lot of...

...joy and a lot of spontaneityspontaneous conversation Han hard to Hart conversations to people. That ismy hope, and I appreciate it ton one find UF question: Why do you work? Why do I work? I think there are many elements to it,not just one, and it is more philosophical, butthat's how it is and we are living and we all need the money aspect of it. Sothere's that one reason, but for that you can do a job, you can be anentroprener, you can be whatever sowe all need money to survive. You canalways say money is not important, but that's one part of it which pays ourbills. The second part is, I love to help people and that's why I consult Igive advice, so that's the second part, and the third part is, if I don't doanything, I will get stale and I will not be relevant because, if you're notgrowing, you're dying, if you're not acting, basically, if you say static, the lawof INERSHIA comes in so rather be in the law of momentum. That is keepworking working working. So that's another reason. It's for those threereasons to achieve my goals, some of which auremoney related to meet people and help people and also do something which fitsinto those two objectives. That is leverage my skills to help people andachieve my targets. Ponit Betty. Thank you kind, sir.You've been a scholar, a scholar and a gentleman, and I appreciate your ligterleisure. You can all the best vidician. You do have a heart for people and youhave a mind to help us nd. I thank you very much. I culso thank you for listening to thisepisode of why we were with Brin, be sure to subscribe, follow and sharewith other MN. So they two canencourage there were. I hope that you haveyourself a productive and joyful dayin. Your Work.

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