WhyWeWork BrianVee
WhyWeWork BrianVee

Episode 73 · 2 years ago

#73 Michael Sherlock - Shock Your Freedom - BrianVee WhyWeWork


Michael Sherlock is a company culture design strategist, but don't let the blue hair fool you, Michael is an intelligent and successful leader in her industry. Shock Your Potential is not just a brand, it is a lifestyle and Michael Sherlocks embodies SYP with class.

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Shock You Potential Podcast

KuKua Biz

"The Right Person in the Right Position doing the Right Things

As leaders, it is our job to ensure that we have the Right People in the Right Positions doing the Right Things. The most critical element is always the Right People.

If we have the Right People, but we don’t have them in the Right Position, or doing the Right Things, then the blame falls to us. Leaders must constantly evaluate themselves while also evaluating their team.

How do you know if it’s you, or if it’s them? Give yourself the mirror test.

We challenge our clients to reflect on every single member of their team, evaluate their strengths in their positions, and then to review any perceived weaknesses by asking themselves the following questions:

1. Has this person been thoroughly trained?
2. Is their weakness because of lack of talent, or lack of training?
3. If I improve their training, will they be successful?

At “Shock Your Potential” we help businesses to create the Dream Teams of tomorrow by developing Exceptional Leaders today. We work virtually and in-person on single session trainings as well as multi-platform training and coaching and have an on-demand training app for leadership and sales professionals. Search for “Shock Your Potential” in both Google Play and the Apple Store.

Learn more about us: https://www.shockyourpotential.com. Email: michael@shockyourpotential.com" (LinkedIn, 2020)

Welcome to why we work with your host, Brian V. As he speaks to people like you from all over the world as we together dive deeper into our motivations, struggles, joys, seemingly missteps, hopes, warnings and advice which would be an encouragement to us all to get up. Get going on. Keep on working. Working is tough, but working is good. Now here is your host to why we work. Brian V. I'm Brian V, and this is why we work today. I had the great pleasure speaking with Michael and Marie. Sherlock. Michael is a company culture design strategist, speaker, author, corporate trainer and podcast host today I want to find out three piece from Michael. One is how do we reach our potential? How do we bring productivity into the workplace? And also, how do we bring positivity into the workplace? So join me in my conversation today with Michael Anne Marie. Sherlock. I'm Brian V. And this is why we work today. Have the great pleasure speaking with Michael. Sherlock. Good morning, young lady. Oh, good morning to you, Brian. Thank you for coming on. I appreciate you and the work that you're doing in the corporate world. Would you be able to? I just did give a little introduction, but one of yourself and just get us up to power where you are. You bet. Well, I call myself the chief potential officer, because when you run your own company, you can give yourself any title you want. Thio. But my company is called shock your potential, and we are a global leadership and professional development training firm, which really means that oftentimes businesses come to me and they say we have a problem. That's usually the way the dialogue starts. We have a problem, and oftentimes it's with a leadership team, whether they're inexperienced or they're going through transition. So we do training for them to help them align with better communication with their teams, understand communication strategies and how that can really benefit the bottom and top line of an organization. And we do it through a number of ways. But we also have a lot of fun in my company, so we have, you know, ah, podcast. We have an app that has a lot of on demand professional training programs for people to participate in, and we spent the last year during, Ah, you know, some interesting times, Um, really trying to reach out to our kind of a B two C audience instead of just being primarily be to be. So we do a lot of things and we have a lot of fun doing it. Michael, would you be able to bring us back? We'll get into shock your potential in a moment, but can you bring us back? What would have been your first job may be totally unrelated to what you're doing now. It may have made you a dollar. It may have been just a volunteer position. What was your first job? My first job. My first real job, where I got a paycheck and had to learn what FICA was and who was taking money out of my paycheck. I was hired at. I was 16. I was hired at a jewelry store to be a gift wrapper during the holiday season. And it was It was one of the greatest opportunities for my life because I was so fascinated when we had downtime in the mall where we were. I would read all these brochures about the diamonds that we were selling or the Rolex watches or the Yad rope porcelain on guy. Just a soaked up information like a sponge. And the people that I worked with watched that and they saw me And, you know, just trying to learn more is constantly asking them to questions. And one day saying somebody came in and that he was looking for a diamond engagement ring. And one of my colleagues said, Why don't you go see if you can help him? And I sold that night a diamond ring and I was hooked. I was hooked on sales. I was hooked on the process, and when my manager found out what happened, I thought I might be in trouble. And he said, At 16 years old, you sold somebody a diamond ring. I said yes, and he goes, We need to put you out on the floor more. I need to see what how this works. And for the next five years of my life, whether I was in college, coming home from breaks or when I was still in high school, I worked at that store, and, um, I just I loved it. It was, in fact, when I'd come home for breaks from college. My manager would be calling my parents, and when she coming home, she want to pick up some shifts. Why did you get that job? I mean, that's 16. Not many people are working. It's kind of a 50 50 for North Americans. Maybe you are. Maybe you weren't. I mean, but you're No one that I've spoken to yet has gone into jewelry at 16. I mean, so you're you're up there already, but what What...

...got you out of the door? Well, I had a friend, actually a woman that I babysat for, you know, and I baby sat her Children. So I guess, you know, technically, that might have been my first job, but, you know, you have technically, but she worked for this jewelry store and she knew I was you know, I wanted to do something different and she she said, Hey, we need somebody to be a gift wrapper at one of our locations. And so I'm like, OK, and you know, I had no idea. I learned a lot like I made some mistakes. The first one of the first times, I just when I got dressed to go, I was wearing jeans and a sweater, and my mom's like, I don't think that's what you wanna wear And I said, Oh, Mom, their new genes or new sweater You don't know what you're talking about. Of course I got sent home to change my clothes. Eso I learned I learned some really tough lessons there, too, but I sure learned a lot about not just sales, but really about professional environment and what it takes. Thio. You might not always look the part of what you're doing, but if you act the part and you understand what the expectations are of you, you can take that and and really use it to propel your career. I walked by jewelry stores usually walk into them. Maybe I should more often my dear wife would appreciate that, Uh, I find that they're empty a lot, and I think it's just because it's a high margin sort of product where you're going to get on Lee. A few people come in. I mean, it depends on the stores well, but here where I am in South Korea, they have sections where products are sold so you can go to the jewelry street. So you. You have a lot of competition or the towel Street or the motorcycle street. So I look at them and I say, I feel bad for you. But when you make that sale, that's a nice, big hefty sale. What? What more experience did you have over the five years there with the jewelry? And what has that taught you? Mm. Well, one of the things that was interesting to me there is that they did not work on commission. So you earned an hourly wage, and you got paid more. Um, and a lot of those stores are commission driven and what had taught me. So, you know, if you just fast forward to the end of my corporate America career, I was vice president of sales for two different global hearing aid companies, and I ran R us stores and those were commissioned driven positions. And the distinction of understanding how to operate with people in a sales situation, whether it's commission driven or not, is really important. Because if you're a great salesperson, even if you're earning a commission, you should never act like you are. You should never have anybody know you make commission because If you do, then you're probably trying to sell too hard. And so I was able to see in this really incredible environment with great people. Um, at 16, that sales is not a process. It is in interaction. It's communication. It's asking people questions. You know what brings you in today? Well, I want to buy a diamond engagement ring for my girlfriend. What do you want to spend? What are you looking for? You know the design. You know the color. And if you're not looking, if you're not trying to end up with a commission, you will sell the person exactly what they want. If you are a good commission sales person, you will sell the person exactly what they want, regardless of that. And that's I think that's I learned that so young on but really is stuck through with my entire career because it really taught me that sales is about communicating and asking enough questions to make sure you meet somebody's need. I wish I bet you when I was just coming out of university, because the idea that you're talking about here is what turned me away from sales because I felt you know there's a stigma that goes with sales, and that is that coin. The other side of the coin you're talking about where people are trying to land it. No, but if you're trying to serve the people who are coming in for a product, or you may even suggest to them a product that they may like. But you're not trying toe, you know, gain that money. It's not just another sale, it's it's that interaction. That's a huge point. And I don't think I really heard it articulated that well before. Yeah, it's always been. My belief is that it's really that intersection when somebody wants and needs something and you can provide it. And if you have asked all the right questions, you will know exactly when they're ready. And so when I taught my sales people who were commissioned hearing aid sales people to ask the right questions in the right way, understand that that person may not by today, and that's okay. But if you asked them the right questions in the right way at the right time, they will come back to you when they're ready, which means that you're not trying to push or pull. You are just providing that conduit for when and where they're ready. And then if the sale doesn't go for that push, pull and sort of character, you're becoming desperate, right? Right, And and then there's this sense of urgency, and then...

...you as the buyer, you're just standing there watching this poor sales person either try too hard or fallen into desperation. Yeah, well, and even I'll give you a really quick story about another realm of it. To your point. There's a lot of people who think that sales is a dirty word, and so that means that by nature that you are a Charlottetown or I used car sales person, which is unfortunate that people feel this way. But I did have an audiologist that I worked with once who win. Um, I realized later this was the fourth time these people had come in. They were ready to buy hearing AIDS for the husband. They were ready. They asked her at least seven times. What do you recommend? Now? Let me just put it in perspective. This is a new office in a very high net worth area, so they have high net worth clients that come in. And when they came in, this couple said it. We're so sorry that we're late. We were just making the final decision on test drive between two cars, and I said, Oh, what kind of cars said ones Alexis and one's a Mercedes. So that tells you something that tells you something about their buying power, right? And as they went through, they kept saying, Well, what do you recommend? And I couldn't by law interject in the sales process because I was not a licensed hearing a sales person, but a T least seven times that sales person that audiologists would say, Well, I don't know. It's kind of this. We could do that. We could do that. And later I told her I said when they left again without purchasing, I said, You have done them a disservice. They asked you, What do you recommend they want? They want a recommendation. If you fail to give that to you, you have failed them. You have failed them and you know I offended her. I was a little bit E was a little frustrated in the process, but she did eventually sell them a set of hearing aids. But it was three more appointments later and just broke my heart because that was so many weeks that he could have been having help. But he wasn't because she was afraid to say This is what I recommend. And if they were bringing the sales person bringing their opinion in based on their experience, rather than say, the commission versus you know, maybe there is a higher commission here, then it could be a truly objective view that the consumer would truly unjust, feel and appreciate coming from them rather than you know. Soon, if someone is selling you something and you know it's more expensive than product A or B, then you're like, Okay, I in the back of my mind I'll be thinking, I know why he's trying to push this. But if that sales person, maybe that's just me, but the person this the buyer would be looking at the sales person say I know why you're doing this and then then you have that that pull, push and pull effect, which I think is what well and you. But you could also say things like, you know what I actually have. I'm gonna tell you what my top choices and I'm gonna be clear that it is the most expensive. But this is why I believe it is. Now, if you want to consider some other things here, the next two choices I have and you lay it out and you're just very honest about, you know, the first choice you do believe is the best. Then I think that there's there's a lot of integrity and that, but it has to do with the confidence of the person who's making the sales, Uh, you know, trying to conduct the sales connection for the person. So, Michael, after jewelry, you're talking about getting into college. So where was your mind in getting into college? What were you thinking? What was your pathway? What are some other jobs? Is you You were doing the jewelry part time alongside where you looking at? Something else is Well, oh, I'd left just because I changed my mind so many times in college. You know, I went in. I didn't know what I wanted to dio, um then I wanted to go into ah, psychology, which I have Ah, psych minor. Now it's actually I was one credit away from having it be a double major. Eso it's which to me is a part of everything I do and leadership in sales anyway. But I ended up finally deciding to become a teacher. Um, and I remember my family saying, Sorry. Was that your first idea, or do you want to be a psychologist you wanted? You weren't sure. You're just gonna go this next step in education? Yeah, I was first. I wanted to be. I didn't know. I had no idea. I just knew I needed to go to college. Second is, I wanted to become I actually wanted to become a physiological psychologist, and I wanted to work with terminally ill Children and their families. And there was a point in my life where I realized I don't have that emotional buffer. I can't do that. I would be devastated working with people like that. Um, love, it would be incredibly powerful, but I knew that I couldn't handle that much sadness in my life. And so then I was like, Well, I could become a teacher, so it was kind of like the third thing was the reason why you're pursuing sort of Well, is this a What did you call it? The position for physiological psychologists, physiological psychologist for Children.

And then becoming a teacher was their reason. I mean, you babysat was your technical first job. So was there some reason did you have siblings or you grew up with a bunch of Children that you just wanted to help out there? No. The strange thing is, is I'm the last of six kids. So and I love kids. I always baby six kids. There's one indication your your family. Yeah, exactly. But, you know, I was the baby, so, you know, they all took care of me. But I just I was really fascinated. I loved everyone in my sight classes and and I took one class. I'm physiological psychology, and it really prompted me to think about, you know, what could I do with that is a career and I was doing volunteer work at Swedish Hospital in Seattle. I didn't really work with the kids there at all. I worked with adults, but it drew me. And so I think there was always something that wanted me to work with kids. Um, when I got into teaching I found that I was not really happy with the the The politics of teaching e was very disappointed. E was, Yeah, I got hired. I only taught one year and I was hired on a grant for a Catholic school. I taught seventh grade literature and then for the other. However many periods of the day I taught computer classes and they go, we need a computer teacher. I'm like, Sure I could do that, Had no idea. Luckily, it was the, you know, Apple to ease with the floppy disks. Basically, I was a baby sitter in the room, but at the end of the year, the grant ran out. They didn't have any money for it. And all the teachers there were teachers being left laid off left and right in my city. So because there weren't enough kids coming in. So I had to pivot, and I went a whole completely different route and never looked back. Although teaching is still is such an element of what I do, you know, I just teach in a different way now, And, um not not Thio not to junior higher or grade schoolers. What was your decision process for pivoting so extreme. Well, there was no choice. I mean, I couldn't move, so I couldn't. And there were just no teaching positions. So no, there is no place for anyone who was just a one year, you know, tenured teacher. So I started looking at anything else that I could look at, and I actually got hired by a non profit as the director of education for a money management company. So that was, ah, you know, credit counseling organization. So in that I got Thio, you know, still experience my teaching my love of teaching. I created a lot of courses, taught a lot of courses and worked with teachers, loved it, but worked with adults. And, um but then I ended up, you know, learning about how to do marketing and how to do public relations. And so I ended up doing media interviews all the time, and it was one of those moments where I remember going. Wow, this is this is really such a strange change in my career. And I'm so happy that it happened. Wasn't happy at the time when I got laid off, but later can look back with shock. Your potential in your other books that you've written. Do you look back and say, this is where I started to gain traction. This is where you became you. Oh, absolutely. In fact, I started a training company then around that same time and was really passionate about it. I was teaching people how toe do marketing for their small business, how to be better at, you know, public speaking and had, you know, some great ideas. But I wasn't to the point yet where I could sustain myself in that so that that dream kind of had to be put on the shelf for a while. Mm. So then you got to get a paycheck. And as you mentioned, you got into the hearing aid businesses Well, and then was there anything else that you did before your present position? I've done. I've done so many things. Yes, So I I left. So I, you know, transition from the nonprofit Thio, uh, to long term care. So I went into, like, nursing home and skilled nursing facilities where I ran marketing and public relations for their buildings. I went from that into pharmaceutical sales and from pharmaceutical sales. I got into the hearing aid industry specifically where I started, actually, just working with, um, hearing aid practices as well as your nose and throat doctors who sell hearing aids. And I was teaching them how to be to build their businesses, to have this as a profit center in their business. So that was really where I started to, you know, learn how toe impact businesses at a huge scale and, uh, you know, along the way, Then I started. I had my own company again, where I worked just myself with hearing aid companies and your nose and throat doctors, and then went into V P of sales positions for a couple different companies. And finally, and I said, Okay, it's time for me to pull back to my entrepreneurial goals and and do this right now. This time Well, I asked that, and some people think it's it's sort of, you know, Oh, I did these jobs. But for listeners to show the non linear path that people go...

...to is, I think, one of the most, um, compelling ideas or concepts of work, and we're learning. We're developing and I don't fully understand it, but I know It's a good thing because most people in the world at any time in life or throughout the centuries, years ago, maybe it was more common. But you started at one thing and you didn't stay with that thing all through your life. And this is where we're learning. I mean, and also where people have a job, they want to change it. Or they lose a job not to be so discouraged and not to get down on themselves to know that other people look. This person here is successful, and they had five other jobs along the way. And like Little Red Riding Robin Hood going along with their basket and just gaining Mawr, experiencing experience and just learning more things along the way and then becoming the person who they're most comfortable with, they're at their highest potential. But it was It was a path that, you know, you couldn't have foreseen when you were younger, thinking I'm gonna do this, this this and this. But looking back saying, Well, you know, some was difficult, some was a little bit easier, but I know that it was all beneficial for my career. My work, Yeah, I feel that same way. Um, it was really interesting. I was interviewed when I moved from pharmaceutical companies from one to the other because I worked for one, and then they worked for Eli Lilly. And after Prozac went off patent, they had a massive layoffs. So I was part of a layoff, and I was interviewing within a different pharmaceutical company. And they asked me how I would describe in writing, like a diagram how I would describe my career. It was never had anybody asked me that before. It was really interesting. So I kind of started with the spiral and, you know, it kind of went out and then sometimes part of the spiral would get a little wonky. You know, when maybe I didn't make the best choice. Like I didn't even tell you that when I left the nonprofit, um, I wanted I got offered a position to be an executive director at a very small nonprofit, and at that point in time, I wanted the bigger title. So I made a leap that didn't put me backwards financially, but it wasn't moving me up, But the title moved me up, and I was there for six weeks when I found out that the nonprofit had no money. I mean, by that time I had really gone through all the, you know, accounting and everything and and I went to the board of directors and I said, How could you hire me? We're out of money And they said, Well, we hired you to write grants. I said grants take at least six months. You don't have operating expenses for me. I can't pay myself. I definitely can't pay my employees. And it was a huge lesson for me. And luckily, I found another job. But, you know, that was a weird, you know, crank in the in the the non linear path. But all of those all of those jobs taught me something, and I I'm very happy. I I know my job history. My resume looks a little interesting, but every job that I took other than that one was always something that someone offered me. You know, uh, you know, in those days a recruiter came to me. Somebody new somebody they were always steps up, so I didn't worry about whether or not there was a long time Now from now where I am now and I look to hire people. I don't like to see a lot of big jumps on their resume in fast motions because it makes me a little nervous. But I do ask people. I always ask them this question. I say tell walk me through your career and I don't mean tell me job by job by job. I want to know what prompted you to move from one job to another, you know, was because I want to know whether or not are they moving because they're unhappy, They move because, like me, they got another offer and they couldn't say no. So I'm gonna learn about them to see whether or not they're gonna be a stable and employees, and sometimes a lot of those jumps are very concerning for a hiring manager. But other times, you know, you know what, what you expect, what you're getting in that person, and that's really important, I think, for people to reflect on why they change and when they change and some sometimes they're good decisions, and not all of them are good, because if we run too quickly, and even if it's not the greatest situation. Not only is it not always better on the other side, but sometimes that means that you're not willing to go through the hard stuff to really learn something in the process. That's your highlighting, a very good point in it. I think people would do well to pause slowdown before they're jumping from job to job because what you see on your resume or what you would be looking at someone's resume, there's a lot of indications there in between the lines that you are able to notice and realize that maybe some alerts that the person who holds the resume is thinking, Hey, look at this. I got a whole bunch of stuff or, you know, I was I was at one job for a long time, maybe too...

...scared to leave, even though miserable one way or another. There's a story behind all of that that we don't usually think of too often. Yeah, that's a great point because there are a lot of times when people would apply for positions with me, and I think I'd look at their resume and say, Wow, you just worked at some place for 20 years What happened and What does that tell me about whether or not you're gonna be able to adapt to a new situation? Michael, what is it you're doing now? So we can get into the weeds of your life now And the things that you do each day or throughout a week? Gosh, well, that's a good question. What do I dio? What do I do day to day? Um, day to day. I like this week, for instance. This is my podcasting week. So for one week a month, I taped all my podcast for, uh, well, heir to two months from now. So I taped all of my February podcasts. So I like to batch I like to find You know what I can do in group? I've learned that the hard way. Sorry about how I hear people doing that a lot. What is the benefit? Because podcasting is becoming, you know, a household name nowadays. And if you don't have one yourself, someone else does. But what is the benefit of a Matching them and putting them together and then releasing them later? Um, so much. Well, for me, first of all, I could be too easily distracted, so when I I started doing this in September of this year. So just a few months ago, um, prior to that, I would just take them wherever. But then if I were really working on a project and I had to stop and do an interview, then my mind was not completely on the interview, and it was not completely on the project. And so I realized that this was kind of an insanity thing with me. So the moment I stopped and I started doing this in a one week block, then I can focus on every one of my guests, and I can really I could take the time to prep for him. I can, even if I have, um, all back to back. So it keeps my mind working much more clearly. I mean, even on the side, that that's helpful information for anyone in any realm in that if you have something on your plate, you know, or if you have a lot of similar things, get them off your plate and then you can focus on something else or something better or something more productive. But when you have and I spoke to someone before in an interview. And you know if if you know we were talking a moment ago about being married, and if if I have a problem or there's some issue of my dear wife asked me to do something, and if I'm not going to do it right away, it's going to be eating at the back of my mind when I'm at the interview or speaking, you know, if there's something coming up or if you don't clear those things away, then you can't focus on the real thing that you want to be doing or you should be doing right. And so it's really forced me to make different changes about a lot of things in my business. And eso, for instance, I started blocking off every day, 8 to 9. So as you know, you could access my schedule with my calendar link. But I know that between eight and nine, that's when I need to be, you know, checking my email. I need to be organizing my day, and I don't want someone in that first spot because I feel rushed and I am concentrating on something that's still those other things in the back of my head. Consequently, Um I was just doing a training today. That's about understanding. Uh, you know, kind of my mindset being a highly sensitive meaning, I could get distracted easily. And one of the things that I implemented beginning next. Well, not next week, but the week after that, because of other things going on right now in the time of year. But I'm gonna block off. I blocked off for all history to come Friday afternoons now from 3 p.m. On because I want to take that time to wrap up my week. One of the things that's really important to me is having zero inbox emails. I don't want any emails in my inbox on Friday afternoons. Now I know when I get it all done. There's gonna be another email that comes through. But that's part of my Yeah, if it's in my if it's in my inbox, it's something I have to dio. So I need to do that. Teoh, I want to do that Teoh, to clear away everything to say. Okay, I'm done. What else do I need to do? Work on my project list for the next week and be able to really shut down my mind. So I'm very excited about implementing that one. Clearly didn't get that on the agenda for this week. But, uh, you know, getting there is usually I ask people about a tool that they use to stay efficient. Is there something that you use that keeps and helps you stay on track? Yeah. And this is really helpful because I have a pretty large team now and my entire team is remote. So my entire team is out of Kenya s O to keep us all on track. We use ah, system called a sauna, and it's a task management on ditz. It's so I have that open every day. I have my to do list.

My team knows that if they need something from me, they give me a task. So a s a n a Okay, Yeah. So if they need something, they don't email it to me or send me a text message. They give me a task and they tell me when it needs to be done. And if my team sends me a task, I know that I owe it to them. Just like when I have tasks for them. They deliver on them all the time. But that way everything is always in a list somewhere, and it's very satisfying. It's not a satisfying for me is writing and crossing something out. But, you know, checking the boxes and see that I have them done. And I'll tell you, my assistant, when I don't have things all done, she's on me all the time, like you've got to get this done. I don't like seeing the red things on your calendar getting any race, a bull market and just right on your computer screen. Done. Got it done. So besides your podcasting, what what do you do through the week? That state helps keep you productive or keeps you going? Yeah, And I was just gonna say one other thing about the batches of the podcast, because when I do it for, you know, two months ahead or six weeks ahead, then my team has all the time. They need Thio edit the tapes to create the social media posts. Thio, you know, put the show notes thio to put him on the on Arpad being sites so that they're ready to air. So when I do things earlier. My team is not rushed. They don't feel pressure. They have plenty of time to get things done. And so what that does then is so the rest of my week. Then, um, you're making a really good point. You're being considerate of your team. Ah, yes, right. You're being considered of other people in Okay, I got to get this stuff off my list. But also, you want to give your team or whoever is in your life some extra time to do the work that you know that they have to do because you don't want to dump on them. You know whether whether it's once a week or every so often or randomly and it has to be do or you want to to be out for Monday or something like that. So it's just a point that you're you're being considerate in other people and not all people are considerate of others. So it's just a really, really consider those other people's in your lives that in your life that you will affect by the things that you do Well, I'll tell you what. I found it out because we were having an all staff meeting and somebody said something about my marketing director losing her mind. And I looked at her and I said, Lorna, I'm a my driving you crazy Like I didn't realize I was last minute on something and she goes kind of driving me crazy. E started laughing. I'm like, Why didn't you guys tell me I'm driving you crazy? And so we all together came up with this idea of, you know, let's really get ahead of this. And let's work well enough advanced that none of us feel the last minute pressure. And that way everybody can take a relief. And what happened then is my whole team got more efficient because they know that during this week they could get other things done because I'm doing this. They could work on other projects, and then they have the rest of the time to do the other parts of their job that relate to the podcast, for instance. So it's really about, you know, it's really about making sure we're all working together efficiently as possible. Mhm. So as you move past the podcasting, what else is it that takes up your week? So right now we're doing I have a lot of focus on our app. So we when covert hit and my speaking in training calendar, you know, went blank, We were finally able to work on a project that wanted to do for a long time. So we created this shock, your potential app. And what this is for me is it's an opportunity for me to train individuals more directly. So instead of just, you know, working on the B two b factor. Now we're really going be to see also. So we launched the APP in July and really in beta format. So we have about 1000 users right now and we spent the last couple months reformatting learning from what our users had told us and eso beginning again on January 4th. We have a a ton of new content, so we've got new elements in There were a lot more things that are interactive, and we're really excited about bringing this to the market on a bigger scale. So right now I'm in the midst of creating a lot of content for that, working with, you know, my app manager, to make sure we've got all the pieces moving in the right place. But to me, it's It's probably the most exciting thing that I'm working on right now, because it really is the evolution of what I want to do with my business and where we go with it. So is this not knowing myself, but helping businesses with the customer experience and allowing them to understand their customer better sort of information, some tangible in their hands, sort of stuff that can help them just be better in whatever in their walk of life that they could take with them? Is that Is that the purpose of the app? Yeah, well, it's It's really not even designed for our business clients. So much is our individual, you know, followers. So about about 80% of my...

...followers are sales managers at mid or entry point of their career, and they're they're trying to climb the ladder. And what I mean by followers, followers are you know, the people that consume more of my daily information on my podcast are pretty much like the 18,000 followers I've got on linked in, and we've got others elsewhere, but that's that's my biggest following. And so what I've learned from them the last couple years is they are hungry for ways to develop themselves. So just like with your podcast, you know how Where do I get this information to make me better help my career more So we really designed this for them. So there is a morning motivation message that five days a week, starting again on January 4th will be just like me saying Good morning. Now, my focus for today is, you know, gratitude, whatever. So it's just a motivational message. I've done some funny things. I've done some serious things, but we have an element called the potential lab. And in the potential lab, there's videos that are much longer where I'm tackling issues like, What do I do? How do I have difficult conversations with my employees? Um, what do I do when I'm not making budget? How do I make budget and still retain my humanity? So we have some different types of content there for them, but we're we're adding a bookstore. We have a side hustle room. So people who are like, I wanna have something to do on the side that maybe it might become my full time job. So I'm interviewing all these entrepreneurs about their side hustle. So it's a really different, um, avenue for us to be able to reach our followers really directly and be able to give them content and training that will benefit them in their careers. And a lot of it is free, some of it as a $6 a month membership. But its's really designed to kind of have us reach people in a completely different way. So Michael is a speaker. Which cove? It kind of buckle the knees of everyone this year. Um, Uran Author, How many books have you written? Well, I have released two. I've written I've got two more that are almost completed. So and one of them is a novel, so that's gonna be very fun. Although my first two published books are business books one on leadership in one on sales. But they're written like novels. Yeah, yeah. So in shock. Yeah, Yeah. Tell me more how to ask the right questions and get the most out of your employees. We had to Sorry, we had a little glitch. Yes. I'm sorry. I think we had a Yes. So, yes, the first one is tell me more how to ask the right question and get the most out of your arms. And my second one, My second one's called sales mixology. Why the most potent sales and customer experiences follow a recipe for success. So as an author, speaker and corporate trainer, your you're mixed in a lot of things right. And you're also a design strategist as well. What is difficult about all the tasks and hats that you're wearing? Um, probably figuring out where you know what is. What do we need to be driving at any certain time? And that's why we've gotten a lot more clear as a company and as a team this year to drive the podcast for where it needs to be. Because this will be the first year we'll have sponsors for the podcast. Um, Thio really use my podcast, for instance, is a platform for a couple other things because we actually have one other business. Um, but really deciding Thio to shore up kind of this element where we reach I'm on a I'm on a cliff here. What's your other business? Okay, so I'll tell you, it's very fun. So I told I alluded to the fact that my entire team is based out of Kenya and, um, we I found I found this out from a client of mine. So a couple years ago, I worked with a client that's based in Singapore and Thailand, and so I went to visit them. I knew he had some team members in Kenya. The head of his team from Kenya came to Singapore to meet up with us for meetings and I just got to know her, her and a lot of other people. And I said, How do I get how do I get one of you? And she's like, I'll come work for you right now I said, Can't steal you from my client that would be bad. But she introduced me to some other people and I ended up making my first two hires this time last year. And so over the course of the last year and a half, I have added more team members and people constantly are asking me How do I get somebody like that? And one day, when three people in a row said, How do I get a Lorna? You know, can you help me find a Lorna. I said to my husband, We have another business here. We need to start this and he's like, Yes, we dio So we started a company called Cuckoo A biz and the websites gonna be launching finally next week. But it Z we're matching talented people out of Kenya with this started out as us small businesses. But now we actually have...

...somebody in the UK and somebody in Mexico that are about to bring on their talent for the first time. And we're just matching them with affordable talent. That's a dedicated person to their business. And and we're and we're training and motivating the talent on the other side. So we talked about the clients in the in the talent, but it's a really exciting new adventure. Is this akin to a virtual assistant? Mhm. Yep. Eso they may eso we're connecting virtual assistance, marketing people, you know, social media marketers, um, website designers kind of you name it if you need it for your small business. We've got somebody that either conduce it right now or that we can train to do it. What is the website going to be when it launches? It's gonna be cuckoo. A biz dot com and cuckoo is spelled K u K u a and then Bisbee. I see. So if anybody is interested in learning about it before the website goes up, they can always email me to at Michael at shock your potential dot com So you're busier than I thought. Yeah, and your experience. I like your experience runs deep. It's not superficial. It's not. I worked here and here, even from jewelry, right? A 16. Where are you finding dissatisfaction in these these valleys and hills that you're experiencing along the way? What is keeping you going? Well, you know, I would have answered that question much differently prior to the pandemic because I always get a real high when I speak and train. Um, you know, there's something so satisfying about, you know, working with people through their challenges and leadership. Um, but obviously that changed. And so our whole focus changed. Now what? I'm I'm so I'm so proud of our app. I'm really proud of our podcast in our podcast just exploded this year, and I'm realizing that there's a whole other niche there. That is, is really we're just now even scratching the topic. We're We're booked solid through May and already have guests booked. We're doing five days, five shows a week. We already have shows booked half of June, July, August and September, and I can't keep up with it. So now I'm like, you know, we're we have so many people wanting to be on this show that we're not gonna be able to accommodate them this year. And so I'm excited about that because it means we're doing something right. People are listening, people want to be on. So my the only down I have is I can't do everything all myself. So now I have to say, Okay, what's the next thing that we really focus on it and really take it to take it to its full fruition and my work with cocoa a biz I think is now what I see is the conduit between what I teach in leadership in sales and interacting and how we're going to teach these incredibly talented people from Kenya to learn how to be amazing in a global world and then really bringing that to light with businesses. So it all gets me very excited. Unfortunately, Sometimes I get myself a little crazy, right? I But I think you're doing a great job, right? It's It's probably there's probably a lot. And as you mentioned to me about working with your husband, you know there's different dynamics that go with that. But at least you're working together, right? Some people don't work together, and while it brings difficulties, I know it just shows that you're a dedicated team and where you're reaching out. It just shows that you have a vision for something bigger than we'll just myself. It's It's on Lee about me. So especially with working with a spouse, right, because it's the two of you working together. And while that dynamic can be straining at times you guys were working and building something together and and that there's a lot in that and it helps. A relationship is well, can you speak of maybe in what you're doing now, a skill set that you just have toe have for listeners if they want to be in your pretty shoes one day, I know you're big on shoes that they just need toe have this sort of steel toe work on. Maybe as they progress through their careers. And it's just something that they're going to need in the future. Yes, absolutely. I want to make sure we're still good. I think we move. Froze a little matter froze. Hello? Okay, I think we're back now. Sorry. Yeah, absolutely. Um, it's really premise of my whole first book. So it's called Tell me more. And there's a really important reason for this is that if I could go back in my career and do anything differently, it would be to have learned this skill much earlier. It would have I've had a great career, but it would have propelled me...

...much farther faster. And it's about the act of of really engaged listening so often times you know, as people are trying to come up in their career, they wanna look like they have all the right answers, and they want to be the one that that solves the problems. But true leadership and true evolution is about asking the right questions at the right time. So I alluded to that already in the sales process. And so let me give you an example. When I took when I first started leading a team of about 500. I had 32 managers that reported to me, and I was really good at solving problems and I was trying to. We were taken company through a massive transition. I had things coming at me, left and right. So when they would come to me with a problem, I just give him the solution like they're here. Michael, what do I do about this? Here's the answer. Go do it. And I became so adept at solving so many problems at once that I really screwed myself over. And the reason I did is that I trained them to say We can't do anything without Michael making the decision. I trained them to depend on me. I trained them to hear in that dialogue that I didn't trust them to make decisions. And it came in the price of me kind of losing my mind. But it also came in the price of them, not excel ing as leaders themselves as quickly as they should have. And so when I realized that I stopped and I started asking the question So you know, you might come to me with the question and, um, you know, say, Michael, what do I do about this? We've had this crisis and I'd say instead, Brian, tell me more, Tell me what's going on, which is going to force you to tell me a little bit more. It's also going to get you out of the fight and flight mode. And so I'd ask you variations of tell me more over and over until you've told me everything. And so when you have told me everything by then you've calmed down. Then you start to see things clearly. And I was talking about it being like if you've ever packed a suitcase so full that you have to sit on it to zip it up and you realize that if you zip it up and you put that under the airplane, it's probably gonna pop out anyway. And all your clothes, they're gonna be over the bottom of the airplane. So you have to unzip it and take everything out. And when you take it all out, it's all laid out. You have decisions to make. First of all, you can see everything clearly, but you have to decide. Do I need to just pack it more neatly? Do I need to get a second suitcase. Do I leave some stuff home? And that's the same thing Is that with the process of questioning is it allows you to help people to see all those parts. And basically, by that time, I could say, Well, Brian, sounds like you've, you know, kind of unpack to this issue. What do you think you should dio in 99% of the time you're gonna have the exact right answer. And the great thing is, is that in that moment, I get to say I think that's an excellent idea. Let me know if I can help you. Is there anything you need from me? So what I've done is I've validated that you've made a wise decision. But you also know that you came to that decision on your own. You understood the process. And in the 1% of the time, if you didn't make the right decision, if I think it's gonna be harmful, then I can still say Well, Brian, let's talk about that alot. But I have a couple concerns with that approach. Do you mind if I share what I'm thinking now? By that, I'm asking. I'm showing great respect to you because I want your permission for me to tell you why I think you're wrong and that takes me out of the I'm the know it all. And it takes me into the true leadership level. And whether it's you know, it doesn't have to be somebody coming to you with a problem. It could be any interaction or where when you stop long enough to ask just a few more questions, you slow yourself down. You slow your mind down. But you show that you are willing and able and interested in what other people have to say, and that's when you really rise to the occasion. That's when you be you become seen as a leader. Even if you don't have leader in your title yet. It's a zoo. You're saying I'm thinking of when you first were getting into business and people were coming to you. I'm thinking of like a baseball player just hitting balls away. Okay? Okay. Solve this problem. Go here. Or someone with a fly swatter, just Okay. Go do this. Go do this and then reversing it into, like catching a butterfly. So you catch the butterfly and then, you know, as a child, so many kids around here catching little bugs and stuff, and then you're releasing it. So that's what you're doing and and opposed to, as I just thought, like, you hear reporters asking questions of anyone right, celebrities or And they have this question, they must ask. This is I got to ask this question and then it's like it was what any other questions that were coming. Or they say it's a sports or political person and it's just not the atmosphere for that or not that way. And they just asked that question that particular way. And it's totally out of context. Or it was just asked like someone asked the question.

And they weren't listening because they were so focused on what they needed to dio and by listening and absorbing and going about a different way would Yeah, it would make us all better listeners. Yes, And I know you had, you know, my friend Rocky on your show before Rocky, Roman, Ella and I love him. He's just so fabulous. But one of the things he taught me long ago is that when you are even considering, um, promoting somebody within an organization that one of the things you should ask yourself is who's already in the job, that they just don't have the title? In other words, who's already operating at a higher level than their colleagues? So they already have the street cred with their colleagues. They already have the mindset. So sometimes we wanna thank Oh gosh, you know, who do we have to promote or, you know, what are we going to do? But when you really stop and slowly look around, you will see the people that use this kind of strategy because they're already showing themselves improving themselves among their colleagues. And there appears to be the people who are going to create calm, who are going to find solutions. But they're going to help you. They're not. They're not always making the solutions. They're helping the entire organization. To continue to operate at a high communicated, communicative left communicative level communicated very well. It's very E would have botched it worse, But it's good, I mean, and that's good on YouTube. Thio. Look around what might what resources are available to you and even some, you know, budding budding business person or someone that's just coming up and you can see that they might have the potential there. They just need some of that listening that you can instill and give them some wisdom or some patients and some guidance. And then maybe that is the person, rather than outsourcing, to someone else bringing some other people in. Michael, what would you like people to understand about you? That they don't understand that what you're trying to dio not not what you don't understand, but what they don't understand. Um, and how knowing this about you and your drive and your passions knowing this will help them better appreciate what you're bringing to the workforce. Well, it's funny because I'm clearly very colorful. I have very colorful hair. Um, it usually changes a lot. Maybe not so much in Covic. Blue has been a lot easier to work with, but I am raised by the way. Thank you. Thank you. My husband. Help me do it This time. A lot of people couldn't pull it off, but you're, you know, doing well. But I I embrace this part of me because I always say that I'm very serious about business. But I may not look serious all the time, and it's part of my, uh, it's part of me. It's part of my personality now showing through and and understanding it doesn't it shouldn't matter what color my hair is, Um, but it's funny how, when I interact with people after a while, they totally forget what color my hair is because they understand I'm serious and I take serious intent when I'm talking about leadership, especially and professional development. But it doesn't mean that that seriousness or professionalism is only one way. There's not just one way there has to be something that's authentic, and that's one of the things that I try to make sure that I convey with everybody is we all have a brand. We all have stories and words that are spoken about us when we're not in the room, and I I want to make sure that people know that they'll always remember I'm fun and that I'm a positive person. But then I did. I know what I'm talking about, and then I'm very serious about it. But my brand is my brand. Yours is gonna be different. You don't ever have to have my brand. I don't have to have your brand. There's not one brand. The brand is when you know who you are authentically and you align how you operate in accordance to that. And when that happens, then you really excel in your career and your opportunity because that alignment is means that the things you want people to say about you when you're not in the room are the things that they are saying about you when they're not in the room. It's very good. That's it brings out our character the question of character, which I have for you a little bit. Michael thinking of three piece that I've gained from some of the reading that potential productivity and positivity potential productivity and positivity. How can someone in the workforce, you know, shock or realize their potential? How can they be productive in the workforce? And I ask that versus the question that you might have for your businesses is how can our employees be productive, right? How how can we get their potential? But from employer from employees perspective?...

How can we bring this to the table better? Right. How how can we bring these three things to you or to our bosses or to our company. Well, it's a great question, and the first thing I always talk about is I tell people and I use this. I use my hand is an example. And I say, Pretend your hand is a mirror and you you need to look in the mirror. Often, we all have to look in the mirror often, and the first step is really identifying. Am I meeting expectations? And if you don't know, then you haven't communicated. You have not. You may not even know what all the expectations are, but you definitely haven't communicated with your superior your leader to find out. And sometimes people don't want to ask that question because they're afraid of the answer. If that's the case, then you're definitely not meeting expectations. I mean, you're just not. But anybody who wants to be more productive and and really have more potential has to be willing to always look in the mirror. And, you know, from early on with my career, I was constantly going to, you know, seminars. I was listening to tapes on, you know, books on tape, and I was reading books prolifically to try and make myself a better leader and a better salesperson. And I think that that that desire toe always strive for more will always make you more productive because you are always looking at yourself in the mirror and saying, How do I stand up to this? You know, how do I measure against that? Um, but at the end of the day, you will never achieve all you want to dio until you can have honest, clear communication with your boss. And sometimes that's not easy, because sometimes your boss is not the best communicator either. But to find the way to get past uncomfortable situations and say things like, I'd really like to just sit down and talk about how I'm meeting your expectations. And I don't mean asking for a performance review, because from a leader's perspective, that means I want more money. Eso I'd want somebody to say, Hey, I've really been trying to work on myself. I want to make sure that I'm meeting all your expectations. I'd like to just have a couple dialogues, you know, every couple weeks and and have you give me some pointers, give me some advice. Tell me where I'm going. Right. Tell me where you think I still need Thio. Increase what I'm doing. Would you mind if we had kind of a standing every other week meeting for 30 minutes? This is thes air hard questions to ask, right? So if someone's able to do that, I mean, like, that's like asking your spouse where my falling short, right? Like for you to stand up and to say these like So for a listener, it's not easy. I mean, it gets your overtime, but maybe even doesn't right, Depending on the situation. In this scenario, it might be even harder pill to swallow. You know, the humble yourself and to go, you know, where my where my falling short. That those air hard Just to acknowledge that this is not easy to open. You're open, you're being vulnerable. You're opening yourself and saying, Where are my faults? Please tell me in a nice list order so I can on You probably don't want the whole list at once either. But, you know, like so, for instance, if I'm a sales person, I could say, you know, I've really been working Brian on my closing skills. And here's how what I've been doing to try and get better at it. But I'm finding that my closing rates are still not improving. I would really love some advice and guidance. Would you mind working with me because you're going to say Sure. I mean, any rational person is going to say Sure, So then I could be very specific about what I'm looking at. Um, but yeah, you have to be willing to take it to because you're going to get some pretty honest feedback and it's gonna be hard. So you have to make sure when you're looking in that mirror, I can take it. Whatever they say, I can take it. I'm not gonna. It's not a it's not a mark against me. It's really designed to help make me better. And I really wanna be better. It's not personal. It's It's to help you and Thio raise you up to be on that you're able to be. What about positivity? How how we bring that positivity in? I'll tell you, I wish I would have figured this out a lot longer to is for me. Um, my positivity is something. It's like a well, and sometimes it can run dry if I haven't taken care of myself. So self care is really, really, really important. And that means having boundaries. That's that means understanding. You know why it's more important for me to batch my podcast episodes rather than having them willy nilly. Eso I know clearly when I'm not when my well is running dry. But one of the things that I found about seven or eight years ago was mindfulness and meditation, and that is so critical in my ability to clear the cobwebs and to really, really find mental space to keep my positive energy going. And even on my app, we have, ah, meditation room where I have a couple people that I've interviewed, including one who I just fan grilled over him. His name is Glen Harold and I listen to his stuff almost every single day. He...

...does hypnosis, meditation, and you gotta be dedicated because it's about 30 minutes of your time. But it's so powerful just to find space in your head, because if we don't have space in our head, we respond quicker to things we, you know, have more fighter flight. We have more fear, and the more we can give that mental space, we clear out all the cobwebs and it keeps the positivity right up front. Yeah, I find it hard to and I'm sure I did in my lifetime. I know I did it, but just waking up and starting your day without some sort of pause. Just okay, Here I go. Like it Z, how do you know your starting on the right foot? Right. How do you know? Like it just it's not the right way to do it. However, someone starts their day by just throwing those feet down and going at it again. You got it. You got to take a moment. Yeah, Michael, what about people thinking of baby sitting for you are getting into jewelry or switching your careers a few times. People who are in that same position getting their first job, maybe switching the position. Do you have any advice or a tip for them into just starting in work? Yeah, Well, first of all, um, no matter. If you did get a degree, it really doesn't matter what your degree is in. I always tell people, Don't Don't be so certain unless you know you want to become a doctor or a lawyer. Um, you know, most degrees are really flexible. You know, getting a degree shows that you have commitment to an education, but not everybody needs a degree, so it's not the end all be all. But if you don't, then make sure that you are okay with that in your own head, because you have to be okay with it in order to sell to anybody else that you're okay with it. Um, but when you start understand how important communication is I've interviewed a lot of people that are that are immature in there, interviewing process, meaning that they think it's all like, Oh, you're gonna ask me questions and I'm going to stand here and I'm just going to try and give them back to, you know, I wanna have a dialogue with you. I want to know that you can converse with me. Conversations are important. They're important to understand how we communicate. But the same thing is when you when you are trying to make that decision like what do I dio just find some action? It doesn't have to be perfect. No, job is perfect. No different job is any better, really than where you are. Um, the only constant is you. So your skills that communication your ability to self reflect your ability thio. Try to figure out what the communication style is of the person that you're interviewing with or working with. Those things make a huge difference, and there are easy ways to to learn about them. But you have to be dedicated to it, and you have to practice it. And by the way, I'll tell you a follow up email is not the same as a follow up mail card that says, Now I want to follow up email if I interviewed you. But if you also pop up a card in the mail to me, saying, you know, thank you, that is a lost art, that really I don't care how old you are that will shock somebody even cursed. Incredible writing would do to the time God, exactly so many opportunities to take some of the old this course. I have terrible handwriting, so when I try and do that, it's just a disaster anyway. But But those those kind of old school types of activities really still play out well in a world that we're so dependent on technology. I like what you said. The action I've come across and because I, my dear wife, is Korean. We've lived in Canada together, and we've met some Koreans who and it's not about Koreans. But I know that this is universal. The idea that I'm not going to get a job until I get that perfect job. Mm. And I'm like, No action. Go get a job. Just get any job. Not not something that you're waiting for that you know, just stay home and live off of someone else. Just go get a job. Just just start there, right? And it's so important. Action, no matter what. If you're starting in your first job, you want to switch. Get out of something that's miserable. Just do something right. If you're able right, there's There's a section of the world that is unable, not talking about them. But if you're able to get a job, just put it into action. Do it. It was all a favor. Do parents and grand parents and the government a service by just just staying active? Michael, you've you talked a few things, said a few things about your private life. But how do you turn off work and make those work life choices and try to balance that out, too? And to take that rest you mentioned meditation, which is part of it. But also what else?...

How do you do that? Is that a hard thing at your level? It's I'm better at it now than I ever was before. Um, and so my husband and I, we have a couple of things that are kind of our ground rules. So number one, if we are on vacation, we've still so he doesn't just work with my business. He has a full time job, but he, um he has a very important job and he can take time off. But when we do, we both will take one hour in the day, usually in the morning, and we will answer emails, return phone calls, take care of any outstanding issues, and then the laptops are in the, you know, the safe in the hotel room, and we are on with each other. Now, people know that if there's an emergency, they can reach us. We understand that but we don't get caught up in checking email or anything like that were really good about that. We both on a weekend we'll spend, uh, you know, a now, er or so in the morning doing some things. But then same thing, everything shut off and we spend time together. Um, it wasn't always that way. I wasn't always that good. It's something that's really, really important to me. We eat lunch together now, now that we're not traveling and we're in one space, we eat lunch together every day at noon, and that helps us to keep attached to each other and then, you know, exercise together. You know, spend time together, watch TV together. Those things were really, really important. And and we've made it e don't even know if we made it a priority. We just We just always we've Yes, we did. We made it a priority, but we've We've figured out a way to keep the balance so the businesses keep running, but that our personal lives really stay in check. I mean, I think I have this experience is well, because you've prior to getting married or people who are not married. Think What is she talking about? You have to make time for one another. Well, besides the dynamic of the relationship itself, the things just happen. And, you know, it's okay. You got to go to this. You got to go to this and then you okay, honey, honey. Okay, let me by or whatever it is, But there is It takes some effort. So for anyone is not married. You you said. Well, we've always and then you correct it. No, no. We've made it a habit because we have to just, like exercise, right? How How many times have we gone? A day? A week, month, You know, time without exercising, because it just goes. And then you look and you're like, Oh, I better exercise or you look at the husband, or you look at the wife and you, like, we have not eaten together in a little while or sat down for a moment. So it's a good point. And for people who are on the outside looking in wondering, what is she talking about? Well, that's what happens. It is, in fact, when we're done here tonight, I mean, your morning, your time. But it's my night. My time, We're gonna go for a run, and that's Ah, it would've been great to do it any morning this week. But I had earlier days with all the podcast taping and, uh and you know, these air the week. So I have to put makeup on. There's other weeks. I don't have to do anything. So, you know, that's that's a part for us to also be ableto, you know, go for a run, talk about our days, you know, kind of get some of that physical activity out and then be able to spend the rest of the evening. You know, relaxing and being together. That's that's great. And encourage people to walk to run together. Spouse is. And now I'm feeling guilty. So my dear wife and I might have to do that again today. Um, but yeah, but it does. Also encouraging. Right, Thio. Okay, Well, spending time together, going for a walk together, reminding people either or not doing it or people who are doing it. Oh, there are other people doing it is Well, those were encouraging things that we sometimes say. Okay, well, but they're important nonetheless, Michael, I have just a few more. I'll just run down them quickly. But is there a mistake that you would have made that or or advice that you would have received, that you were not listening to growing up or through your career that you wish you would have held onto? It's kind of like the skill that you wish you had, but a mistake that you made that you learn from or something told someone told you something that you weren't ready or matures. You mentioned, uh, to be able Thio, bring that into fruition. I think it almost goes in line with what we were just talking about. Um, when I worked for the nonprofit and I you know, I I loved that job and I was, you know, I was second in command in the organization, helped grow them. I was having all these great opportunities, and I was out to lunch with a friend. And I knew that later that day we were having the board of directors meeting. So I knew, you know, I had to get back and get the room set up. I must have been thinking about that when my friend said to me, um Is there some place you have to be? And I looked at him. I go, No, not for a while. Why? And he said, because I started counting and you have flipped up your watch and looked at your watch at least 30 times since we've been here. And I it I was shocked. I was mortified. I was embarrassed. I took that watch...

...off. I didn't put my watch back on for at least 10 years because I realized that while my mind was so busy with all the important things that I had to do, I was not present with that person. And he was a business. He was a friend, but a business colleague. And that was such a wake up call for me to realize sometimes you don't know what messages you're sending, and I never ever wanted to make that mistake ever again. And it really, I think, is what prompted me to start thinking about why communication is so important and why being present is so important and that if somebody calls you, you know, at work and they need they have a business challenge and you need to focus on, you know, that they need you unless you're talking on your phone. Uh, you know, put your phone down. If you're talking on the phone, you know, make sure you're not looking at it. If you're sitting in front of your computer, move away from it. Don't let anything else distract you from that person who called and needed something from you. And that way you are living and breathing that that true communication of saying what you have to say or what you need from me right now is truly important. And I value it. It's It's almost becoming cultural right. It's cultural, culturally acceptable. Thio live like that. So, yeah, I'll be talking to somebody and going Uh huh, Yeah, My phone is always upside down when I'm taping a podcast episode or anything because I don't want to see the bright light of it. The challenge of communication. Can you speak of the challenge of character in a career? You know, it's sad that the first thing I will say is that I've seen more examples of bad character than really dynamic positive ones. Now that's not to say that there aren't some that are just kind of okay, Um But I have witnessed people that truly, uh I don't know how they can live with themselves sometimes, you know, just in terms of how they talk to people or treat people or the way they approach things. And that's where the mirror really comes into play. But on the flipside, some people that go unnoticed I would challenge them to say, Continue to look in that mirror and say, Why do I not stand up for myself or why do I not want to stand out a little bit? Um, you know, am I Am I really showing all that I can be? Then when you have people that air, you know, really overly, you know, happy and Greg gregarious and and you know, the jokesters. Those people also need to look in the mirror and say, Is that too much of that? You know, so that the constant ability of us to really look at us ourselves and understand our character is really important. And I'm not saying I've ever been perfect because I'm not ill. I make mistakes all the time, but I hope that the one people thing that people know about me is when I make a mistake. I will own up to it. I will. I will say I screwed up. I didn't do that right, because I don't ever want to pretend like I did. And, um, the more we're able to reflect our character will will be developed from that Because that shows people that we want to continually advance who we are and where we are. It's It's interesting. We don't always think of our faults of commission, the things we do and the faults of our omission things that we're not really doing. Yeah, Michael, what is your goal? What are you hoping to accomplish in your work? E? You might have overarching goal or just some small goals. E gotta go for a run today with my husband. I hope this podcast and soon I have probably too many goals on my goals have changed. You know, I I really want to see this app becomes something that, um is a tool and resource for people all around the world to really find ways to continue to advance themselves, whether it's in their career or in their entrepreneurial journey on di believe that we're really putting things together. That will make it completely dynamic. In fact, my director marketing said to me one day, she said, I want to see the shock, your potential app be something that people are waking up to check your motivational message that they if they have a job interview, they know they can go to it and and watch a video on how to prepare for the interview that if they you know, want to know how to get out of their job, that they got a training that will help them, and that they really see this is their daily resource to advance their careers. And I went, Wow, I didn't even think of it that big me to e. I'm like, I want that, too, And I that to me, then, is the evolution now with Kuku a biz you know, with these incredibly talented people in Kenya that have multiple degrees that have great educations but no place to use their...

...skills, the opportunity to give them connections with other business people and truly make them global. It's so exciting, and the people that we are connecting, it's just it's such a joy to watch. In fact, one of them I just asked for a quote for our website, and she said, before Kuku, a biz. I was in a job, a job that had nothing that fed my soul. Now I am partnered with a training company where I am not only valued, I'm supported, and I am a part of their success. And I was like, Drop the mic. It's so key, Like to be part of a team that cares, right? However big or however small, to be part of something like that and what you're doing, um, obviously has an impact. Those were great goals, those air, great goals, any overarching one, you know, move to Florida. That's what I had some of the other. I have won an island off the coast of Spain or something along those lines. I'm like, Okay, good, Michael. And in a more serious note, is there some adversity that you have faced that has either had a positive negative impact on your work? But you are overcoming it, thinking of mawr of what other people face. I had something this week that was just overarching and finally like to a mental state where it's not making me crazy every minute. We made the decision this fall. So when we do a podcast episode, it's always out there. It's always on our pod bean. It's always on our website. It's always in the app we promote. People were gonna be pushing out people's video episodes a couple months after their episodes. We've got all these things in motion we're always promoting. We're always trying to promote our guests the most possible. But we made the decision this fall to start offering our guests after their audio episode aired. If they wanted to purchase the files for a very small fee, $19 for the audio only $29 for the audio and video. And the reason we decided to do this is because many of my guests are. They like to have those things so they can manipulate the data, you know, the files to use in their own social media. And so I would say I sent these emails and said, um, here's how you can do it. Thank you for being a guest. Here is the files. I must have not been clear in how I wrote the email because one gentleman, um, then responded to me in a very strange manner. And the next day he had started to blast me on this national Speakers Association Facebook page with about, you know, 20,000 people that I was unethical, that I was holding his episode hostage, Um, that he you know, all this stuff that was all untrue. Um, but it came from a miscommunication, and I don't you know, I don't know what else, but and I didn't know about it until Monday morning. So he started this Sunday night about 10 o'clock at night. I woke up to it at 6 30 the next morning. Luckily, many of my friends and other guests commented and said, That's not true. This is not what's going on. But other people said, Oh, that's horrible. She's so unethical. So I was. It was a tarnishing of my reputation. I was devastated and I did get on there and I said, You are incorrect. Here's where we you know, when we release your podcast episode, here's the link to it. Here is all the proof. Here's the what I wrote in the email. None of these things you are saying are true. I don't know why you're tarnishing my reputation, and eventually he took everything down. And I really had Thio like Step Back because two people who commented were also guests of mine who said they were offended by the email that I sent to them. They didn't understand why I would charge, and so I still believe in my practice and I'm going to keep it. But I'm going to do it much differently. I'm going to make sure it's very clear. Um, and I don't expect people to do it. They don't have to, but for I had a number of people who immediately wanted to buy the files because that's something they needed for their websites. Eso you know, like I said, I'm not charging you $100 you know, it's helps cover our processing and promoting fees. So, um, I'm still fine with the practice, but I will do things differently. But it was a really great lesson toe. Learn that before you send certain messages or you think you've got something in line, make sure that you are really looking at it, reviewing it and contemplating because one person's misperception really can cause significant damage. 20,000. But yeah, Andi, I don't know that everybody saw that. But, you know, I mean, however many it it's I think most people will forget about it anyway. They probably didn't know who I was, but still at the same time, you know, it also did damage to me and my psyche, and that's that's...

...the thing I need to protect more than more than anything. Well, I like your humility and and said, Maybe I I didn't write it as well as I could have, right? That's important, like not right off the bat. He is completely wrong, although that the thought could be there. But to say, you know what? Maybe I just wasn't as clear as I should have been and on that foot then and then proceed thinking of this in the adversity you have faced with the adversity other people are facing this year. Notably. But all through life, life is a challenge. Do you have some words of encouragement for people who are in work? I mean, I just said to someone I interviewed yesterday. My mom had passed this year. We lost my my dear wife's grandmother. My dear wife, lost her younger sister, her sister, my sister in law, uh, and tragic happenstance and almost lost my job a month ago. And I said to the guy yesterday, But the heartaches and I was in a funk this week to just like but what I experience is a drop in the bucket compared to what some other people and not to compare, but for what other people are experiencing. And they haven't been in a funk in a week for a week. It could have been a month, a year, a decade. But they're looking toe work there, you know, but or they're still dragging themselves toe work or they're scared to work and they're not working. But they want Thio. Do you have any words of encouragement just just off the top of my head? Because I know and some people say, Well, oh, well, that's a hard I encourage the whole world to get out of depression or something. But just words of encouragement for people who are experiencing some difficulties in their life. Yeah, well, I think, you know, first of all is make sure you're surrounding yourself with positive people. It's really important that we take a look because sometimes it's easy when we're in a funk to get around people or engage with people that are also in a funk Because you feel like yeah, yeah. Or no one else by yourself. Yeah, exactly. And we need we're social animals. We need and crave that community, but we want to make sure we're getting the most positive community. Um, e also think that, you know, every time we when I talked about looking in the mirror, sometimes we can look at it through the wrong lens to sometimes we're looking at it very critically. I try and make sure that we're that for me, at least that I'm not looking at it to say what's wrong with you, Sherlock, But like, Okay, what are we gonna focus on next? But sometimes giving yourself a little break and saying, Okay, I'm doing the best I can right now, but if there's somebody that's saying okay, I don't even know where to go from here. I don't You know, maybe I want a new job. Maybe I want a new life. Whatever is starting to actually write those things down, write them with pen and paper. Not on your computer. The physical act of writing your goals and your dreams down really does start to create different patterns in your brain. And as we start to write that and read it and write it over again and read it again, we start to get a little bit more confidence about what we can dio. Because if I want a new job and I keep saying I want a new job, I want a new job. Then at some point, I'm gonna have to say, Well, what kind of job? Well, I want a new job. Maybe in banking. I want a new job in banking on a new job. Maybe I wanna be a teller, you know, so you can start to move yourself through different layers of, Well, what's the next thing? If you want a job in banking as a teller, well, start looking at banking jobs, you know. So then it gives you some steps to gain confidence to start to have more action. Very good. Yeah, flush it out, especially with paper and pen. Flush that out with those ideas out because we have a lot of different ideas for the days, and we need to get the good ones out and and reflect a lot of gunk. You know, one other thing I'll tell you, though, because I was talking to somebody I interviewed this week and I thought this was really brilliant. She said, we need Thio to be very careful of our internal dialogue. So the things that we're telling ourselves because if you stop if you're in a negative thought pattern and you say, What if I actually recorded this? What I'm saying to myself the things that I'm saying to myself and I played it out loud, what would I think of those words that I'm saying? I'd probably not say them to anybody else ever. So how do we stop the internal chatter and really say Okay? Am I saying good things to myself? Because if I'm not, I need to stop and change that dialogue because that that is going to keep me in a place that I don't wanna be. Sometimes that internal dialogue, I think is not thio toe lessen the meaning of it for certain things. But it's a way thio excuse ourselves from action. Yeah, right. In some ways where you know I'm not this...

I'm not this then not gonna do it. I'm just gonna do it right. Michael, How can you How can people reach you if there's anything else you'd like to add? But how can can people reach you? Find you and and connect? Well, great. Well, first of all, our website is shock your potential dot com You can go to your app store and download the shock, your potential app. You can look up the shock, your potential podcast. And if anybody is interested in cocoa biz before our kuku a biz dot com website is up, they can email me at Michael at shock your potential dot com Michael One final question. And that is why do you work? Mhm. I find such joy in helping people find success, to become better leaders, to become better employees, to become better salespeople. When you see somebody moved themselves forward, you know, change their mindset, get that next promotion. There is such benefit and joy and that for me, knowing that just by motivating, talking, pushing, challenging, that people take steps on their own for their success. And that's really where the shock in shock your potential comes. It's that I know that I can provide. And my business can provide that jolt of energy at times that will get you from where you are to get moving towards where you want to be. I need you to promote my podcast, Michael. Sherlock, Shock your potential. I have appreciated your time and your work that you're doing. Thank you so much. It has been quite a pleasure being on. Thank you for listening to this episode of why we work with Brian V. Be sure to subscribe, follow and share with others so they too can be encouraged in their work. I hope that you have yourself a productive be a joyful day in your work.

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