WhyWeWork BrianVee
WhyWeWork BrianVee

Episode 24 · 1 year ago

#23 Cliff Fortner US Army Biomedical Equipment Specialist BrianVee Whywework

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

Cliff Fortner is a US Army Biomedical Equipment Specialist who has a passion for cars and a desire to care for his family.

Welcome to why we work, with your host, Brian V, as he speaks to people like you from all over the world, as we together dive deeper into our motivations, struggles, joys, seemingly missteps, hopes, warnings and advice, which would be an encouragement to us all to get up, get going and keep on working. Workings tough, but working is good. Now here's your host to why we work, Brian V. I'm Brian V, and this is why we work, and I have the great pleasure of speaking to Mr Clifford fortner. Good day find sir, I don't Brian, I'm doing well. Thanks, I mean you and I have been trying to do this for the last little while and I appreciate you taking the time to do so. We've known each other. You are actually, as I'm thinking of it now, one of the first American friends that we made while here in South Korea. And now I'm thinking about it and I recall you and your family. You had two children at the time, if I were if I recall correctly, you were sitting at the at a market in Korea, Vinci and, like we just what was it? Da Vinci? It was a Da Vinci coffee into that was in some market. Yeah, it was in the market. We were going shopping and you're like, Hey, we're they, hey, are they hey? Like, Hey, what do we be? Friends listen like that, but it's just it. We get off, hit it off rather from our families perspective, we hit it off rather well. Yea, and then, because you're in the job that you do now, and then you were off like some on a stallion and we've never know. That's not true. We did get to see again. It's a very good story. Yeah, cliff, can you tell us a little bit about you and in terms of work? So when, when did you get your first job, and maybe where you're from and a little bit like that. Oh Yeah, so I'm originally from Oregon and actually at my first job, when I was like eleven years old, I had a paper out and the county that we lived in, I got a paper out there, my friend got a paper out and the IT got my friend didn't want to do it anymore. So I told my parents. I was like, I'm going to take over his paper out and and we ended up taking it over, but it became so big that might ended up having to help me every day. So they drive, they drove in the car and it basically ended up becoming their job too, because it was so large. I think I had the biggest paper out in the entire county and in the choots county in Oregon. And then we would have competitions all the time to get people to start and I would always win those competitions and so I guess we're pretty well known in that area for the Ben Bulletin paper because of how successful ours was. But I mean, I could do it on my own. I was like eleven, twelve years old. So why did you? Why did you decide to get the job in the first place? Meet even at eleven, you're like that's an official job and you're eleven. I'll know. I think I just I wanted to earn my own money and I wanted to do something. And you asked my wife today, like always doing something, I'm always busy something. You're like always she's like, why can't you ever slow down like so? So it's I love. I always been that way and you know, I think because probably because my my dad was that way. You know, I can't there's never really been a time that in my dad in my lifetime. You know, didn't have a job, and not only didn't have a job, but he always had his jobs for a long time. So do a lot of jobs. So how long? How long did your family help you with your paper route? It was a couple years and then we ended up moving to Oklahoma from Oregon and then the only reason we quit that but it got old. It definitely got old because Sunday mornings you had to...

...get up early because that was when the big paper was. So then I had delivered paper before went to church and yeah, yeah, it it. It wasn't a fun job, but it's time to good work ethic and you know, I got other jobs later on when I got the Oklahoma even when I was like fourteen, I got a workers permit from to be allowed to work at like a restaurant or something. But I don't know, I just never wanted to depend, even at that time, on my parents too. Yeah, there was stuff I wanted to be able to do on my own, not depend on my parents for everything. So did you work all up and through high school as well? Yeah, I did. Besides, my senior year, I didn't my sophomore year a high school. It was really a distraction. I didn't I didn't do very well my sophomore year because I was always so tired from working like six hours every night after I got a school bag growcreet at a grocery store the home here, and so it's yeah, and then my senior year as like I just got to focus on on finishing school and at that time it wasn't as important and really, I look back, you know, the I don't think that working during school was as good of an idea as I thought it was at the time. So, so when you're in high school and you're trying to focus on your studies, what is it you're thinking that you want to do at that point? Did you you know? I was. I had a conversation with someone just the other day and they kind of enlighten me to a different idea of saying, Hey, what do you want to be when you grow up? There's that and then there's like rather asking our kids what would you like to experience right what are some things that you would like to experience which would might help you in your path? Did you have an idea of a career that you want to do even as early as high school? Yeah, I was always a car guy and always in the mechanical things. So I mean even from early age I knew, I mean tons about classic cars and always built stuff and I think like every how old were you when you bought your first car? Fifteen, really, yeah, what was it was your first car? Seventy one chevy sten struck, and I bought it from my uncle and I and I had it before I even could drive, because I had to, yeah, fix it up and everything before I got my driber's license. And I but, you know, my dad was kind of a car guy, and I mean even today, like my dad, not so much anymore as you've gotten older, but I always work on my own cars, even if they're brand new. I I mean that they're under warranty, I won't, but I just I change my own oil to everything, like, but it's just I think. Yeah, so when I was in high school, I I you know, growing up, always want to do, you know, the typical things, want to be a firefighter, want to be a police officer ones. But as I got older, like just love cars and I want to be a race car driver, you know, and like wor kind of what kind of now this is going to separate the they say, the men from them will kind of race car driver. I've always been in the drag racing. So drag okay, yeah, but so even today, like I'm just really I just still I like it so much. Were you in high school wanting to pursue that? Did you want to take mechanics? Did you was just something. Yeah, so in high school where we lived, there was a vocational school votech and so you had to it was pretty hard to get into it, but you did. was you applied for it and it was for your junior and senior year. So you had to apply for your sophomore year. And then what you did was the Votec we went to was just right across the street from our high school and you would go half the day a votech and you would go half the day your regular high school. And I did automotive service technology, so like you were, I mean all...

...you did was worked on cars. You got you could get your a se certification and breaks or you know, any of the A se certifications. For what is this? WHAT IS ASC certification? So all in it in the United States. I don't know. In the United States it's the certification that automotive technicians are required to have to work at any dealership. It just chosen that. You're very common, so it's the best certification you can get when it comes to that career field. But after I graduated high school and did Votech I just really was like, I really don't want to do it as a job. Like to me, it becoming a job would have been took the fun out of it. I worked for a few places, you know, working on cars and stuff, and I don't know, to me too, as a job, at least in the lower position that it was in, it wasn't. Did you experience something at that time that made you realize that? Did you have like a co op or something, or you saw some people, or was it just along your journey you realized you didn't want to do that particular thing for a job? I think it was just as I did it. I was like, I just don't want to do this as a job. But then later on, as I realized I probably really just didn't want to do it as a job working for somebody else, mind doing it working for myself, you know, but not in your normal sense of just being, you know, in that career field. But I want to build race cars or, you know, do do the the fun stuff in it, not just the every day even though in that career film, the everyday working on random people, you know, just normal people's cars, is where the money's at and that's how you stay. It was just to me like I wanted to do something more than just the normal if I was ever going to do that. When you decided not to do that as a career, did you have a backup plan or you just said I'll finish this out and play it out see what happens. So the funny thing is is that I after high school, I really wanted to join the air force, but I never did and I'm not sure why I didn't. So after high school I I got hired through a staffing agency that you know, they send you to different random jobs and actually, I take that back. I had one job for over a year at a company that built still buildings that my dad worked at because he lost his job for a big company that you worked for because they ended up laying off a bunch of people and he really didn't want to work at the place that it was a work and that. But I ended up working there. They never gave me a pay raise. The pay was it was okay, but the problem was, like, I don't know, I think I grew up in a family where it wasn't really pushed to go to college or anything. So at that time it wasn't even an option to do that because I wouldn't even thinking about that. To me, it was just so you go work. And then I saw I worked at the still building company and then after that I just really got tired of it because I was like, you know, like I there's no real future in this and worked here over a year, never got a pay raise. So then I went through work through the staff and agency, which really, I mean, I look back, probably wasn't great because it just there was no stability. It was just, you know, you would have this job for a week to a month and then next thing you know, oh well, this company doesn't want these people anymore. You're going to go work for this place, and it was I don't know, I really didn't like that. I did that for quite a while and you know, but then after that is when I worked for a guy that I went to church with, you Onda convenience store, and he worked for him for a while that's where I actually I worked there when I met my wife, Nicole, and so you...

...know that. You know everything changed after that, but but that was so my job. So my job, like places I worked after high school and so I met my wife, was there wasn't a lot of stability and I probably didn't have rate it's work ethic at that time either, just because it was very I don't know, it wasn't enjoyable what I was doing and I really didn't know what I wanted to do. So so how was your wife? So when did you decide after that particular job? Did you decide your present career now, or did you do a couple more things? And how did you work that out with your you know, girlfriend, fiance, now wife? How did you guys come to that decision eventually? So when I met my wife she was already had plans set up to go to San Diego fall of two thousand and six and we met May of o six, and so I was still working at the convenience store and then I I when she went to San Diego, actually helped her drive it there because I was like that's really far. You know, I would feel comfortable if I went with you so that you know, because you know, halfway across the country. anyways, we ended up going. You made it sound like it was down the road. That's pretty fair. I'll drive you. Yeah, it was about sixteen hundred miles. But the thing was we got there and the missions in per school that she was going to. Pastor Howard the the one, the pastor of the church there, that when that was doing the missions in per school, he's like, why don't you stay here and go to school as well home, and I was like well, I didn't even think that was an option. Like so they ended up doing that. So I ended up getting a job when we were in San Diego and we were only there for about three four months, but when we were there, work for construction company doing foundations on houses and you know, because it was you know, financially, that was how, you know, we had money. Then Nicol's she my wife, she worked for the church. She was a secretary at the church where we were there and she lived with two girls in an apartment. I lived with some guys at a house that the church owned. They were other students. But so even then I work there and then I worked at a university. They're doing on campus ministry stuff while we were there and got paid to do that. And then, anyways, we we went back to Oklahoma and arkansastic and married and we never went back to San Diego like we were going to. You were planning on going back after you got married. Yeah, we were going to be interns at the school and we were going to help teach other students and all of that, because we were supposed to go to Istanbul Turkey for mission's trip. And anyways, so when we didn't go back, we live in my parents for a month in Oklahoma and I was working to a staffing agency again for York that you know, the company that makes their conditioners, and I work there. And then we ended up moving to Arkansas where my wife's family lived, and there I ended up getting a job at Walmart, got one of the few full time positions and their lawn and Garden Center, and actually worked at Walmart until I joined the army, and which was only about probably five or six months. So so how did your decision come about to join the army? Okay, so this is from your own side of the family, her side. You guys talking together thinking about your future. How did that come about. So it's funny because, like I said before, I wanted to join the air force after hiding, but I never did because I grew up about two miles down the street from Tinker Air Force Base and Oklahoma. So when we were in Oklahoma, actually before we went to Arkansas, I ended up going to the air force recruiter and so they had me take the Azzba because I hadn't took the as that which is the which is what Ta Yeah, it's a test that...

...have to to test to see how smart you are, how competent you are, to see where, what jobs you would qualify for in the military. And so I made really high score and they were like wow, you could do any job you want and the air force. So sorry for people who are would think about joining them the army or the Air Force or the navy. Yeah, were you nervous at this time? Were you scared at this time? Like to go, okay, this is because most people knowing going to a job like this. This is a career. So you're kind of this is not a recruiting ad or this is not, you know, a convenience store, this is not some mission trip, this is this is a career so how did you feel going to the you know, the military recruiter and taking these tests and like kind of taking a big responsibility upon yourself? Well, I think nervous. At that time. I was probably a little nervous because this was the beginning of two thousand and seven and it was during the surge and in the war in rock and that was when things were getting really bad, and they aren't. The military really need a lot of people and so they probably lowered their standards. They definitely lowered their standards at that time for people that were joined. Joining had a lot of ex convicts that were basic training with me and stuff, but it was because they needed people. Lots of people were dying at that time. But the thing was, I mean I was a little nervous, but I think more nervous just how well I do on the test, because I had been out high school for five years, you know. So you know where most people are joining the military right high school. I was, you know, five years ahead of that, and then my way. You did well, Oh, yeah, and your life. Yeah, so my wife, she was pregnant with our son Jaden at that time, because we got married December of h six and this is what January of Oh seven is when I was working in Oklahoma at York, and then I'll probably January February we moved to Arkansas, or my wife's family lived, and then what was March or April? I went to the what the air force recruiters there, but I couldn't get in because I had a hearing loss on my right ear and they wouldn't give me a waiver. And there important they it's harder to get into the air force. In the Navy it's easiest to get into the Marine Corps, but it was at that time actually, I think, easier to get in the army. But anyways, I went to the air force recruiter, went to maps, which is where you go to do all the medical they make sure you qualify medically and I didn't qualify because of my hearing. So then I probably you disappointed. Were you disappointed with that? Like you were saying that you wanted at a high school to join the Air Force and then you know, five years later, your responsibility on your back, you like I'm going to go do it and then they say no, you're not. Oh yeah, it was very disappointed, I add. You know, the thing is like a month later I went to the navy recruiter and they wouldn't give me a waiver from my hearing either. And the funny thing is is that my brother in law, Aaron, my wife's brother, and then her other brother, Gustin, we're both in the army and they both got recruited by the Starr First Class, the Lunk, the recruiter that recruited me and my mother and father. Well, my mother in law did not like the guy. She thought that he lied to them because, you know, recruiters are known for exaggerating the truth. Yeah, Oh, yeah, but he never lied to me or anything. He was he was a good recruiter. But when I was at Walmart all the time, I don't remember. One time he he came by and I was talking to him and I told him I wanted to join the air force and then couldn't get in. He's like hey, you should come to the office and you should we he's like, I'm very sure that army will give you a waiver for your hearing. And he did that for a little while, probably, I don't know, month and a half, two months, and you've I told a thought to in Nicol and I was like, you know what I said, maybe I should just go the army recruiter, and so I did and they gave me a waiver. And that was in July of Oh seven, and and then August. How did how did...

Nicoll, your wife, feel about you joining the military? Like, okay, I think it might might work. Oh, she's she hesitant, she was scared, she didn't want you, didn't want to be a military wife. But she was solely supportive of it, though, and it was funny because I never wanted to join the army, I mean the Marine Corps. I was never an option, but the army was definitely. Why? Why would the Marine Corps? You know, I'm Canada, so we don't have it the same way, but what's the reserves about the Marine Corps? So tough, tough and not, and it's not necessarily true, but the Marine Corps known for not being the brightest. Okay, well, maybe I could get a job because I'm not very right, but glad that's not I don't know. From a Canadian I hear the Marine Corps, those those guys are girls, are on the top of their game, from what I understand. Yeah, but they get pretty good training. But you got two sides in the Marine Corps. You got the aviation side and you got the non aviation side, and everybody in the Non Aviation decided to grunts and which is what you call it. You know, infantry, even though they're not all infantry, they're all considered. I mean, you ask a marine what job they have, these tell you they're their marine, they're not anything else. HMM, okay, like you as because soldier in the army what they are. They're going to tell you their specific job. But a Marine is trained to we're a marine. So so, yeah, but what? Okay, sorry, I just because I'm making right. What would a marine do? They're just to go fight. Is that? Is that we mean? Yeah, I mean they're all I mean they obviously have cooks and they have other skills. Yeah, yeah, but but like in the army, we are always trained that were a soldier first, no matter what our job is. But aren't. But the soldiers in the army don't really believe that. Like they know that we have another job and that they bet arms guys, the guys that are infantry or tankers or any of the you know filled artillery. Those guys are the ones who really normally do the fighting. We're just so your guys is job what you're referring to there. They're transferable into civilian life, opposed to someone in the marine who's you're trained to fight. You can't use that too many places outside and with civilians, right. Yeah, and even the combat arm side of the army. I mean those guys, a lot of them it. A lot of them reclassed and go into other jobs in the army because they realize there's no real long term future to those jobs outside of the army, because only so many people can get hired by security contractor us. Yeah, or you know, to go and to other countries and, you know, do combat. Yeah, and I's out a bright side, though. We would have to both acknowledge that we appreciate those in the Marines and those that do though the fighting, and because otherwise you would have people like me, and I don't know if you would would want to rely on that, but but surely we're people who fight and mainly just fight. We truly appreciate but it just wasn't for you. No, I I just I don't know, I'm not I'm not soft. I guess I just I was like I gotta stay alive for my family. Well, I mean there's a good point, right. These are hardcore folks that you don't want to mess with and you're glad that they're on the front line because they're hard. Yeah, they are, and they're they want and they're quality regrets them. Their quality of life in the army and the military is quite different than everybody else's too. They're a way more, they're around the field more, they get treated a lot different. Yeah, it's just a very, a lot tougher environment. So your wife was hesitant of view, joining, but so you decided to go for it. Yep. So I wanted to do something like communications. Actually, I wanted to be a like opn license practical nurse, which is a sixty eight wiks Mike six, which is a code identification code. But they changed it, and that's been a long time now.

They changed it now to a sixty eight charlie. But anyways, so I didn't have that. I didn't qualify because of my hearing class, because that has to get a waiver. And so I wanted to do satellite communications. But actually, the funny thing is is the reason I picked my job as a biomedical coma technician was because, and I anybody that doesn't know, I repair medical woman. I'm like an automotive technician for medical woment. But the reason I picked that job is literally because when I went to the recruiter, it was one of the ones on the list and had the longest training and like, oh, so my wife and my son can come with me right? They're like yeah, I was like, I just wanted, I just want to my wife and my son to view with. So I picked the one that that would actually happen. And because my training was just a little over a year, which is really long compared to most of the jobs. I mean most jobs, you know, the training form in the army, is maybe a couple months. Some of them are about six months, but mine was, you know, over just about a year, a little over a year. So this way, the training you chose would allow you to live in a place, be trained and have your family with you, yes, and posed to being deployed right after you're done your training and in a short period of time. Yeah, and so, yeah, I was. The unfortunate thing was at that time we still had drill sergeants for not just basic training but for our advanced individual training. That's the training you do after basic and then they took them away for several years and now they're brought them back. But so I was around drill SARTEAN's for fifteen months and you know, that's you suggesting that is difficult, is it's not you. I mean, yes, drills are dude. It's like, well, when you go to a ITT and you go for a year, it's like kind of like you're going to college, but you go into college with dull Sartean's down your throat all the time and they're I mean they're not nice. So you're not supposed to be. No know. And Yeah, they make a lot of people cry. And so so your position is mainly stayed to what you're doing. Sorry, how long have you been in the military? Now? You're presently active. So today is the sixth, right, so in eight days, thirteen years. Thank you for your service. Yo. So, yeah, even for even from Canada, you're a big brother that protects us. Everybody knows that. It's no secret. It was it for America will be doomed. Yeah, you guys. Military's tiny. I mean that is if any other country want to take over Canada, I mean maybe they yeah, they won't do it. Quite quite cold. A lot of resources, but beautiful. So on a daily basis, what is your job consist of? So it has a medical equipment technician. Okay. Sohow? Because I'm higher rank then I obviously was thirteen years ago. It's quite different. So now I'm supervisor, I'm in charge of I'm book they call a squad leader, in charge of four of the guys my squad. I have to team leaders. And then so now I mainly supervised. There's me and two other stuff sergeants and we're all squad leaders. And then we all have, you know, like five to five to eight soldiers under us. But the big thing we do now is is not only do I I don't work on equipment anymore. I Qaq see some like quality, quality assurance, quality control. After the technicians do all their work on the equipment, then we have to go behind them and make sure everything is right, not in the work they did, but mainly in the paperwork, calibration stickers for the equipment that requires calibration, and then we have to go onto what's called Garmy, GCSS army. That's the system that we use in the field units to keep track of wark orders and we have to account for all of our time anyways. So we...

...do that. But then also I have to supervise my soldiers and other soldiers, but mainly my soldiers. We have to give them monthly counselings, so performance oriented counselings, and how they're doing and, you know, we have to make sure that they are doing what they're supposed to for their career path, that we give them, that we find opportunities for them to get better, more training and our jobs, because the army is not just so you go to work, but the like. In order to get promoted, you have to get in the enlisted side the army. You had to get promotion points and you have to go to different training to give points and you have to you have to do physical training and, depending on how you do on your physical fitness test, we called the army physical fitness as the APFT, you get certain amount of promotion points for that. And then we go to the range and shoot our assigned weapon, which most of us is and forth, and you get a certain amount of promotion points for how you shoot at the range. Is for promotion. Is What is the biggest competitor. Is it other soldiers to your promotion or is it yourself? It's yourself mainly. Now, the the thing with the army is you have advantages being in different units than other units thought, because there's sometimes it's easier for promotion. You mean, no, not easier for promotion. So the thing is you like when I was worked at the hospital, I've worked at to army hospitals, and when you're at the hospital you have less opportunity to go to different training classes because the hospital never closes, and so you're the hospital mission is first, like the hospital operating is the main priority, the pride. Now your promotion. Yeah, I mean, so you have to you have to take advantage of every opportunity there is for that. And then, I mean it looks good like it gives you good experience because you're always doing your job when you're in the hospital, like in field units like I'm in now, which in the army you have basically you have in the medical side of the army, you have like Metcom, like the hospital side, and then you have forced com. So Forces Command would be all your gay combat teams, you're big airborne divisions, all of that, and those are considered forces command and force COOM. Our priority is going and fight mores like that. It's not so when your forced calm, the even the forthcomm unit. You really don't. I mean they care when it, when it, when there's, you know, inspection to whatever, but ultimately they care about they don't about the medical equiment. They care about trucks, guns and they the the medical is definitely not seen as a priority as much. At the hospital that's all that matters is patients. But your your priority in force comm unit. That's I'm in a force community now, but I mean, you know, like I mean, we do our job every day. WED So it's preparing for war. It's not whether your promotion or other aspects of the military. It's listen, this is I mean, that's why you it's a very risky profession you're in right. You're not a lifeguard at a swimming pool, even though it has its risks. Your your training for war. Then that can't be forgotten as well, even when you're looking for promotions and all that. Like the whole soul purpose is to train or to defend yourself. I guess you guys probably have a mission that is along those lines. And Yeah, and we have the sink, all the metal, which is your mission essential task, Lisk, task listing, and that's whatever your whatever you unit you're in,...

...they have a certain metal and your commander is required for your unit to to be trained to meet that. And so we go to the field about five times a year for a week to two weeks at a time. Basically is go out in the woods and we we live on the woods for a week or two weeks and we do are more timesian somewhat, and it sucks and it's not it's not fun. But like, we're going in just a couple weeks and it's, what a hundred degrees outside, so it's miserable. So so promotion that the most difficult thing is yourself, but also it's hard based on where you're placed at that particular time. Yeah, and the opportunities are so there's other people that want to get promoted, trying to get into the same classes or that only only so many positions to be hired for. Yeah, and then once you get enough points, I mean it depends. I know guys that made, I mean sergeant in five and a half years. I know guys that made sergeant in two and a half years. It just depends, like and that can be being partially yourself and it can also be partially the opportunity to given. I had a soldier when I was at Forhood. He had been in for seven years and it never been the train classes or anything like. Whoever was in charge of him before failed him. But that's also our job as supervisor, you know, is to we are. We have a responsibility to make sure our soldiers get those opportunities and that they get into those because they can't do it themselves. And literally, in the army we're responsible for those guys. Like if they're late to work, where held responsible to and if they are, if they failed something, it's our fault. Like, I know it's crazy, but like, yeah, it bleeds over into civil life to it's something that just one second, I'm going to I'm going to show my manly powers here. My dear wife asked me to. Oh, I just got denied. I'm it's hot here's like thirty something degrees or ninety degrees. So my dear wife has asked me to open the Spaghetti Jar. Spaghetti are so thanks, henny's a little clammy. So what is with with the difficulty in getting promotion. What about what is the right is difficulty you experience in your career, whether it's particular to your job, your rank or what is most difficult of being a soldier. The most difficult part is difficult people. So toxic leadership. So I think the I think the army in the military's doing more about it now than ever before. But I've had some I had one supervisor for her. That guy was a tired and the problem is is that in the rank structure in the army is that it can get to the point where some people they get enough rank that it protects them unless you do something really detrimental. Like sometimes it has to get to the point where the way the system is sometimes set up is that unless the person sexually assault someone or sexually harasses someone, they somehow some get through away with it. Yeah, and I mean it's you know, the because as you get higher ring, you get more power, and it's them. And the problem is is that you do still have those boulders that have been in the army a really long time and they got a lot of drink and they still have that old school army way of thinking which in some ways...

...is good because I think that in some and some of those ways that's the military is been negatively affected by this softer way of thinking. In some ways, you know, there's some benefits and then there's definitely some repercussions. That's being done, but you just you know, like I know these days, you know, people use that term snowflake, but the thing is, like them, that you can't be that though, like if you cannot, if you can, if you cannot handle the pressure, then the army doesn't want you. And but at the same time people take it too far and they some really bad things happened sometimes, like people get the Lincoln. Some crazy stuff happens and people get lots of trouble and and you know there is a they do have things to deal with, if that, and to deal with the people like that. But yeah, toxic leadership. I think that's the heart. That's that's pretty universal right, like if you have whether it's a home in the family or business, or this country or that country, if your leadership is waning or wanting, then that will trickle down to the employees or the subordinates. That what is something you like about your job? With I think I like the stability. It's hard to lose your job in that army, but it does happen. I mean you, I mean you don't make it thirteen years without, you know, doing something right. Obviously, but yeah, obvious. And I like the structure. I love structure. I you know, like you can't call in sick in the army. What about you? Know, you're talking about structure. How can you think back to when you were whatever, seventeen, eighteen, and you're living how you want it before you got married? Not I would assume that there's not much structure and how you live, nor how I lived, and then you're married and then now you have this career that's stable, in structured. Can you see the contrast of how your thought process went then versus how you able to think now? Oh, of course, I think the structure is like I have to be up at a certain time every morning. I have no other choice. I can't decide that I don't want to go to work today and Callin sick. I it holds like there's that consequences that you the army you if you're late to work, and and especially if you do it enough, like you, the army will take pay away from you and you can get punished with what we call Article Fifteen, which is one of the articles in the CMJ, the uniform code of military justice. And so it's not just like you may not and eventually you can get kicked out of the army, but it's so, you know, like you, especially when you're a young soldier, you are scared to be late for work or you and and and it at the time seems like it's bad, but what you've learned is you learn not to be late for work. Why do you why do you think? I mean this is generally speaking, not all soldiers when they're for starting out or scared. But why do you think, and I think I have an idea, why do you think people would be scared just joining the military and worried about being late or sick or something? And what is the reasoning behind for their own personal fear of the consequences? What do you think that they may have lacked, but as what you're, I think, alluding to, is what now you appreciate. Oh well, I think they lacked. Well, I think what they have is laziness. And everybody deals with that, you know, like when you're civilian, and you I mean I've have plenty of civilian jobs and you could get you know, there are consequences to...

...be in late. Fine, you just didn't like the army, like, especially basic training and stuff like. They have drill sergeants that are there to put that healthy fear into you, and they healthy fear of God, I mean, and you're and the thing is, like the army doesn't always do with things on paper, like what we try to do is deal with things so you don't have to pay actual financial consequences. MMMML we call it getting smoked, but you know they're till learn the lesson without being discipline in your file exactly. Yeah, it's called. Yeah, it's you. I mean I know guys that have gotten they they did physical training getting you. I believe it all. I believe all day long. So yeah, I think you're touching on it. Is that the people who would join the military are afraid because they lack that discipline going in. So they don't have the wherewithal to know that this is important. So out of fear they're doing it, rather than what you're saying. Now you appreciate that structure. It is not probably, I know it's not only in your job. Now you do everything in a structured order. Oh, and it drives my wife nuts. I but surely said, but you said it was okay to joy the military. You should have known I would be structured. Yeah, you taught to my life. It dries. Are Nuts like how I just very meticual. Cliff cliff, I know, we know it's and the thing is like the but you know, the structure like keeps me organized, it keeps me from forgetting and it keeps me, it keeps me accountable, and it's and you know, like now, I'm not responsible for myself. I'm responsible for myself and for other guys, and I'm I and I'm the one when those guys are really can sometimes have to give them consequences and I feel like their dad. But and these are grown men. And because, like in my squad, I don't have any females but the but I have to be an example to them. And it's and the thing is like it's. You know, the army says for leaders to not let their subordinates know when they mess up, but I don't know, I always had more respect for a leader that understood they were chose humility exactly. And so I make sure I do the same, but it's, yeah, the structure and the you know, s ability, and the thing is, like the I also first and foremost and responsible to take care of my way and kids, and what I lack and what I neglect to do is going to affect them, and it's that's you know it. Even when I was in basic training and I didn't know better and I and and there were plenty of other people there with me, that we're making really stupid decisions, that work even that that I'm getting them in trouble. I didn't even take the chance of doing anything like that because, like, this isn't just affect me, it affects my wife, Elm, and my present and my my my wife was pregning with our son when I was in basically. So and another thing, what you were talking about. Another thing as hard as leaders that are over me that aren't married. That's hard because don't have the same they don't have the same understanding and appreciation for maybe your time. Yeah, they they're okay with staying at work all the time more and yeah, I guess that would be tough. Yeah, they don't. They don't. And if you're not committed like they're, committed, then...

...you're not committed. Yeah, and yeah, and then, I mean, you know a lot of those guys, though not all, but there's a deep there's a pretty good percentage of those guys that have been married before and aren't married anymore and they you know, and I don't think it justifies it, but because you know, I my wife and I would do this. But they there all work all the time, their family never sees them and then sadly, unfortunately, and their family leaves them. But and you know they're that. That's another thing. Is Like my family. They know the army doesn't come first, but that doesn't mean. I know, that's what I heard from a military family. That is it. The military is the first wife and the wife is the mistress, or or the mistress is the wife, something something along those well, so there's a saying in the army, an old saying. If the army wanted to do to have a wife, they would have issued you one. I say to that, well, I had my wife before I joined. Dr Pryor, you didn't have to. That's rough. Yeah, that's rough and or an ape an opinion. If the army wanted to do you to have an opinion, they would have issued you one. Oh yeah, that would work. To cliff. What is some advice that you have for or? You know, you think back to delivering your newspapers with your Kiddy, with your parents, being a kid, and some of the jobs that you had and looking into your hopes and dreams of being a mechanic and in that changing and then finding a wife and you know, along that path you there are many types of you along the way that there are in the world now, people without direction, people who think they want to do something not certain in between jobs. What sort of advice do you have for people in in the way of work, in their life journey of work and how they might be better served in thinking of work? So I think that first I think that you you have to understand that, but you got to have a purpose center right. So it's you know, it's I think a lot of people's purpose can be different for every but but I think the one thing is is that you you understand that you're like your you don't want to be defined by your job, but you know it's but that and you want to find something that you enjoyed to do. But for you enjoyed to do isn't going to financially support you, you might want to think of something else that you can do to for a job. You know, there's a lot of people that the army people do this too, and like they'll want to get out and then you're like hey, what are you going to do, and they don't know where. They're like, I'm live? Like life is not like things aren't free. Like how are you going to live? And sometimes you just have to do those really crummy jobs that hard, don't pay a lot. Build skills like there. You have to build you have to have job skills, like the people. Like everybody thinks you got to go to college, but why is it that a lot of jobs where you go to some kind of vocational training pays much more a lot of times, and the job you could give from just going to college? It's because you can, because college, you know, I'm not going to university, is not bad thing and depending on your job, it's going to require. But the thing is is that, you know, people complain about minimum wage being low or well, first of all, there's always got to be there's always got to be that minimal skills starting point for everyone. And and then if you don't like the job you're doing or the pay you get, you get more skills. And you know, a lot of people will these days. They want to be popular online, are on Instagram or youtube and and they don't want to work. Not that some of those people...

...work, but the thing is like that's a rarity and just like professional sports players, it's rare. Like this percentage of people that actually do some of those things is very, very rare and not that you know. And some people just don't want to be normal. They don't want to have a normal job. They don't have to, you know. But but the thing is like, you know, people can stay. You know, you'll get people that don't get paid a lot and they complain about their pay or that they live a certain way and they say, but I work so hard. Yeah, but but a lot of times the people that make a lot work way harder than you think they do and it they thought hard to get to where they are. And it's like so when and you know what we think is hard sometimes and what hard is like to you know, the I you know, you could be a CEO of big company and they might be working a hundred hours a week and but people complain about forty hours a week and I don't want to work a hundred hours a week. But you know, like just the fact that you know, it's like in the army is like the more rink you get a lot of times, the more you're expected to work and they're going to get that work out of you. But but a lot of people, you know, they they don't want to do what it takes to what you know, society themes as successful, you know, because society deems successful financially. You know you're at a certain point financially, but you've got to work hard and you can't. You also can't just work hard and you can't work hard a McDonald's, for instance, forever and just stay at the bottom. Hey, if you want to become a manager, like find out what skills you need to become a manager or to be in charge, and it's if you because you can't. You got it. You you can't think the same way and you also got to you can't always be a follower. I mean to be a great leader, you got to be a good follower, but eventually you got to like you guys, start leading you because, like, if you want to make it higher in any job, you're going to have to have better skills, you're going to have to follow lead more than follow, and you're going to have the show whoever you work for that your capable of doing that. And I mean it's some and you know the job market, I mean you know jobs. It is very up to the people that you work with too, but you got to figure out, like, what do you have to do to impress that person who's in charge of you? And you can't just be like well, I'm doing this. No, but what is their requirements? Because, unfortunately it's not that's it's they're the ones. They're the ones that's going to decide that or not, whether you progressed or not, by what you show them. So it's now a lot of people don't want to do that. But, and you know why. I mean, Hey, if you're content with if you're intim with being at a certain point, whatever, go ahead, but but don't complain when you don't go further and you don't have more. And also, and also I think my other advices, that money's not everything, but it is important. And also, don't ever, I I just think that time you can't get back is never worth the sacrifice of your and what I mean by that is you get the people in the army, for instance, that they live at work basically, and they never see their family, and that's just time you can't get back. Like you need to figure out a way to get your job done in a timely manner and where you don't have to be...

...there forever because that time you can't get back, even if they don't have family, just to get back and take a rest and get out of it and push back from it for a bit. Oh Yeah, you got arrest, but I think a lot of people want too much rest to like a lot of people think they you know, like, I mean, how do how do you arrest? How do you rest? Clip? It's so funny. Like so I'm pretty easy going anyways, like I I know, it just I feel like I'm a tortoise, like I just take life slow, like I'm not in a hurry about most anything. And it's funny because at night I always had some point, like I just I fall asleep very fast when I go to sleep, and it's but the thing is, like I just, you know, you just take those little moments of time to slow down and but not too much, because then you just do you still do you still work on your car? Oh Yeah, you still do. You do that for break time, Hobby Time? Oh yeah, I build custom bikes and stuff mainly now, and I make money doing it too on the side. But you know, like I'm at a point right now where I'm just kind of probably a month or two rest time, because I spent quite a bit of time building a bike for myself and I finished about a month ago and my wife and kids were like, men, now you can have a little bit of time with you and you're not being the garage every night and and then my wife's like, you're kind of micromanaging things a little. I think we need to get you another project, get you back out of that. Why do you go ride that motorbike now? But you know the I but you know, I see how structure is good for everyone and it's but I also see, even with my own family and people, that it's very hard for people to adjust to that, you know, and it's not just structure. By like even in the army, like physically, like we have to do PT physical training every single day of the wee days and, like you know, like we take pretty good care of ourselves in our family, the way we eat and stuff. But like, I mean, I run. I probably run about ten to fifteen miles a week, but it's not really by choice, though. It's I mean you still have that like you're required to do that, like you're not just it's not optional, and that's, you know, that structure there hold you accountable to do it. And but it's it's good for you and it, I mean you benefit from it and more than more ways than one. But it's, yeah, and you can't give up like you have to, and you can't make excuses. You can't blame everybody else. It's not always somebody else's fault. Are Laziness, my laziness is my fault, nobody else's fault. If I'm every lazy and it's I you know, it's it's not like we have to have personal responsibility. And, like, I know my work ethic was terrible before I joined the army. That was my fault, nobody else's, and it's it. But people have to understand you have to have personal responsibility. It's not always somebody else's fault and you got to do something, and I mean laziness is it's a problem for everyone, like we all do with that to like, it's very tempting. It's you know, there's days I'm working, I literally just not mitivated to do anything, but I still have to and right and I got people that are are expecting me to push them to do better and make it more. Importantly, I got my wife and my kids that are expecting me, and so it's you know, and it affects every part of your life, like our kids. I mean they have chores they got to do every day and we hold them accountable. Feel it every day.

And if you don't want to do it today, like you're going to do it. You're going to do it for longer, like just it's like because you just make more work for yourself. When you procrastinate and you put things off, you make it harder for yourself and everybody else. So now you have really good advice, clip, because in all of that those sorts of people, including you, and I is what you're saying. Oh right. When we're younger, we look at, you know, the CEO or the basketball play or the youtube channel person, like all we want that life. But you're not looking at the hundred hours they're putting in or the skills required or, you know, the jump shots. You know, you just watch a Michael Jordan documentary or something, how many shots he had to take just to do that. In most people you can't get them to run the five car or five miles in the week, let alone just shoot, shoot, shoot, or whatever the sport maybe to do those things over and over and over and over again. And all of that does take discipline and all of that does take not being the victim, not making excuses for yourself and and not blaming others for your shortcomings and trying to overcome them. Those are all great pieces of advice. Cliff how can people get in touch with you? If someone want to get in touch with you about maybe joining the military or just some things on cars? I know personally you love dealing with cars and and you're very talented at it and maybe one day, maybe my dear wife will that you make me a bike or something. How could someone reach you? So mainly you. I'm on Facebook, Just Cup Clifford Corner, and I also have an instagram. I don't use it very much. Just look up my name. I can't remember it's that shows you how much I use it. But also you could, I would say that's two ways. Also, I can I can get a numb Brian has my email. So but yeah, anybody can contact me. Just I have one more question for you, Cliff Yep. Is there anything else you like to add? Anything off the top of your head? Any regrets or hopes or wishes or advice for people? Before I have one more question for you. I think the biggest thing is your just you not to give up and that, like I just you want to have a purpose in life. Everybody wants to have a purpose and you know, my wife and I is Christians. We under stand our purpose in life and but but the one thing is that you just, you know, you. Yeah, I had a saying. You know, we do better today than yesterday and better tomorrow than day, and it's but don't do it on your own. Like it. You got to have people around you, because you know, you can have lots of money one day and be very successful and be all alone and life would be very lonely and it's you know, don't forget about the people around you. And so it's true. I mean, but the idea of having a purpose. Just you know how I would solidify that, is to say, make sure that purpose is sustainable on its own. You know, if your purpose is the love of making motorbikes, well, what happens if something happened to your hands or something and where you lose that ability right? Or if you know the purposes, you know your dog. Well, what happens when your dog goes away? You know those things. As long as that thing is the motivation for the reasons why you do things, is self sustaining, then it will help sustain you in those difficult times because you know it's something higher and stronger and better than what you're able to accomplish on your own cliff. I have one final question. Why do you work? Well, I first work because I got to support my wife and kids and take care of my family. That's my first priority. And second of all, I work because I love to lead people and I you know, and even as a soldier, I don't know,...

I love to be in charge and I loved to lead people, but not to be a boss, but to be but need and I think also I work because I like it. Gives me it. Well, it's one of those it's not the only thing, but it's one thing that gives me a purpose and it's but I'm not defined by it like. That's not, you know, like I don't want to be known, you know, one day as yeah, I want to be known as then known who I am, not where I worked and that woman job necessarily use and it's you know, you gotta you gotta live and especially, you know, depending on where you live, like what, every where you live, it take some money, but it does go beyond that. You know, that's what it starts out as. And don't get me wrong, I wouldn't be a soldier for free, and I mean it's it give me a hard life sometimes and you know it's not and wouldn't do it for free. But but as a soldier to like, I understand that I'm not just working, but I have a responsibility that, like the United States of America is counting on military soldiers and military personnel to not just go and work every day. But like we have a bigger purpose than that, though. Well, cliff, I appreciate your service in the military, I appreciate your love for your wife and your children and what you do, and I would like to talk to you again some time about this very thing. Thumb skirts and take care and thank you very much. Thank you. Thank you for listening to this episode of why we work with Brian Ving. Be Sure to subscribe, follow and share with others so they too can be encouraged in their work. I hope that you have yourself a productive, be a joyful day in your work.

In-Stream Audio Search

NEW

Search across all episodes within this podcast

Episodes (123)