WhyWeWork BrianVee
WhyWeWork BrianVee

Episode 24 · 1 year ago

#23 Cliff Fortner US Army Biomedical Equipment Specialist BrianVee Whywework

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

Cliff Fortner is a US Army Biomedical Equipment Specialist who has a passion for cars and a desire to care for his family.

Welcome to why we work with your hostin Brianvin as he speaks to people like you from all over the world, as wetogether dive deeper into our motivations struggles, joys, seeminglymisstepwarnings and advice, which will be an encouragement to us all to getget going and keep on workingworking Goo. Now here's your housband to why wewere nrinmibrivy, and this is whyweworking, and I have the greatpleasure of making to Mister Clifford fortener good day, fine, sir, I doigBrian I'm doing well thanks. I mean you and I have been trying to do this for thelast little while and I appreciate you taking the time to do so. H, we'veknown each other, you ere, actually, as I'm thinking of it now one of thefirst American friends that we made, whilehere in South Korea, now I'm thinking about it, and I recall you and yourfamily- you had two children at the time. If I, if I recall correctly Um, you were sitting at the at a market in Korea, Adventurin likewe just what was it Dvinci, it was a DVINCI couhe at and Sa that was n somenmarket yeah. It was in the market, we were going shopping and you're like hey,ire, hey o're, like hey like hey. When don't we be friends I like that, but it Jus we hit off andI hit it off. Rather from our family's perspective, we hit it off rather well and then 'cause you're in the job thatyou do now and then you're off like some on a stallion and we've. Never, oh,that's not true. We did get to see you again. It's a very good story! M L. canyou tell us a little bit about you and in terms of work? So when, when did you get yourfirst job and maybe, where you're from a little bit like that? Oh yeah, so Um, I'm a originally from Oregon and actually had my first job? When I waslike eleven years old, I had a paper rope and m the county that we lived in Um. I got apaper, then my friend got a paper out and the H it got my friend didn't want to do itanymore. So I told my parents I was like come on atake cover his paper up and Um, who ended up taking it over, but it becameso big that Mi ended up having to help me every day, so they drive, they drove in the carand asically ended up becoming their jop too ecause. It was so large. Ithink I had the biggest paper out in the entire county and H in in the ShutsCounty in Oregon, and then we would have competitions all thetime to get pol o start and I would always wun those competitions, and so Iguess we were pretty well known in that area for the Ben Bulletin Paper,because of how successful ours was, but I mean I could't do it on my own, I waslike eleven twelve years old. So why did you? Why did you decide to get thejob in the first place, even at eleven yo? ' Yourg, like that's an officialjob and you're eleven althogh? I I think I I just I wanted to earn my own moneyand I wanted to do something and you aske my wife today, like always doing something, I'm always busyduminer you, no AK, always she's like Whyki you', ever Slov down like so butso. It's Um iave always been that way, and you knowI think, because, probably because my my dad was that way M, you know I can'tthere's never really been time. TNAT and my dad in my lifetime. You know, didn't, havea job and not only didn't, have a job ut. He always had his jobs for a longtime, so HMGO toug a lot of jobs. So how long? How long did your family helpyou with your paper route? It was a couple of years and then we ended upmoving to Oklahoma from Oregon and then the only reason we quit that, but it got old. It definitely got oldbecause Sunday mornings, you had to get...

...up early ECAUSE. That was when the bigpaper was so then I had a deliric in the paper before I went to church and yeah it it. I it wasn't. A fun job, but it tough, be good work ethic and youknow I got other jobs later on when I got to Oklahoma. Even when I was likefourteen, I got a workers permit from to be allowed to work at like arestaurant or something but h. no, I I just never wanted todepend even at that time on my parents to Um yeah, there is stuff I wanted tobe able to do on my own not depend on my parents for Everythi thing.So did you work all up and through highschool as well yeah? I did besides my senior year, I didn't M my sophomoreyear of high school. It was really deped distraction. I didn't I didn't do very well my sophomore year,because I was always so tired from working like six hours. Every nightafter I got out t school, my bag grocery at a grocery store thathome here and so mit some yeah, and then my senior year was like.I just got to focus on on finishing school and did at that time. It wasn't as importantand really I look back, you know the H. I don't think tha working during schoolwas as good of an idea as I thought it wasat the time. So so, when you're in high school andyou're trying to focus on your studies, what is it you're thinking that youwant to do at copoint? Did you you know? I was. I had a conversation withsomeone just the other day and they kinda enlight me to a different idea ofsaying: Hey. What do you want to be when you grow up, there's that and then there's likerather asking our kids? What would you like to Experience Rit? What are somethings that you would like to experience? Which Ould might help youin your path? Did you have an idea of a career that you wantd to do even asearly as high school yeah? I was always a car guy and always in the mechanic old things, so Imean even from an early age. I knew I mean tons about glass of cars andalways built stuff and Um. I think, like ever Ya, how old were youwhen you bought your first car fifteen really yeah? What was it h wasyour purst car, seventy one chevy sten truck, and I bought it from my uncleand M. I uh and I had it before I even could drive,because I I had to yeah fix it up and everything before I got a jaberslicense and um I uh. You know my dad was kind of a car guy mMHM and I mean even today, like my dad, not so much anymore as he'sgotten older, but I always work on my own cars, even if they're brand new, II mean they're underwarranty of t'em but Um. I just I change my own oil anddo everything like, but it just Um. I think H. Yes, so when I was in high school, I Iyou know growing up. I always wanted to you know the typical things t wanted tobe a firefighter wanted to be a police officer, one Um, but as I got older like just love, carsand Um, I h wanted to be a race card driver.You know and like whatwhatkin. Now this is going toseparate the they say: The men from the WWELL Kindo race, car driver, I'vealways been inthe drig racing, so h drag okay, yeah, but so even today, like I'm just really Um, I just still I like it so much m. were you in highschool wanting to pursue that? Did you want to take mechanics? Did you was L E,something yeah? So in high school Um, where we lived, there was a vocationalschool Gotec, and so you had to it was pretty hard to getinto it. But what you did was you applied for it Um and it was for yourjunior and senior year M Soyou had to apply for your sophomore derior andthen what you did was m. The MOTEC we went to was just right across thestreet from our high school and you would go half the day, a VOTEC and youwould go half the day at your regular high school m and I did automotiveservice technology. So, like you were I...

...mean all you did was worked on cars.You Got, you could get your ASC certification and breaks or Um. You know any uh of the S,certifications, forwhat is I what is as c certification, so all in in theUnited States? I don't know, I know in the United States it's thecertification that automotive technicians are required to have towork at any dealershit. It just shows that youare very comment, so it's the best certification you can getwhen it comes to that career field Um, but um after I graduatd high school and didvotech. I just really was like. I really don't want todo it as a job like to me becoming a job. wouldhave been took the fun out of it. I've worked for a few places. You knowworking oft cards and stuff to me to has a job, at least in the lowerposition that it was in it wasn't r. Did you experience something at thattime that made you realize that, did you have like a coop or something oryou saw some people or was it just along your journey? You realized youdidn't want to do that particular thing for a job. I think it was just as I did it. I waslike I just don't want to do this in the job Um, but then later on, as Irealized, I probably really just didn't- want to do it as a job working forsomebody else, it mind doing it working for myself. You know Um, but not in your normal sense of just being. You know in thatCreerfield, but I wan T' build race. Cars or you know, do do the fun stuffin it, not just th every day, even though in Te Areerfield the every dayworking on random people, you know just normal people's cars I's where themoney's at and that's how you sting it was just Tome Li. I wanted to dosomething more than just the normal tha. If I was ever going to do that when you decided not to do that as acareer, did you have a backup plan, or you just said I'll finish this out andplay it out, see what happens so. The funny thing is: Is that I, after high school, I really wanted tojoin the air force, but I never did and I'm not sure why Ididn't Um so after high school, I I got hiredthrough a staff in agency that you know they send you to different random jobsand UM. Actually I take that back. I had onejob for over a year at a company that built still buildings that my dadworked at mcaus. He lost this job for a big company that he worked for becausethey ended up laying offo bunch of people and he really didn't want towork at the place. That et was a hor nt but um. I I ended up working there. They never gave me a pavrise. The paywas, it was okay, but the problem was Um. Like I don't know, I think I grew up ina family where it wasn't really pushed to go to college or anything. So at that time it wasn't even an optionto do that. 'cause. I W even thinking about that to me it was just so you go work andthen Um, I uh. So I worked at that stillbuilding company and then after that Um I just really got tired of it because Iwas like you know like I there's no real future. This and forcare over a year never got a payraise Um. So then I went thogh work through thestaff in agency, which really I mean I look back. Probably T wasn't greatbecause it just there was no stability m. It was just you know: Youwould have this job for aweek to a Mun and then next thing you know oh well. This company doesn't wantthese people anymore, you're going to go work for this place and it was. Idon't know. I I really didn't like that. I did that for quite a while and Um. You know, but then after that is when I I worked for a guy, that Iwent to church with Yonda um convenience dor and he um worked for him for a while. That'swhere I actually I worked there when I...

...met my wife Nichole. U, and so you know that you know everything changed after that,but but that was so my job. My job, like places I worked after High School Andso, I met my wife. was there wasn't a lot of stability andI probably didn't have the greatest work at thic at that time either just because it was very ello, it wasn't enjoyable. What I wasdoing- and I really didn't know what I wantd to do so m. So how as your wife, so when did you decide after thatparticular job? Did you decide your present career now or I you do a couplemore things, and how did you work that out with your you know, girlfriendfiancee now, wife? How did you guys come to that decision eventually? So when I met my wife, she m was alreadyUm. Had plans set up to go to San Diego hfall of two thousand six and we met neabosix and M, so I was still working at the conveniencestore and then H. I, when she went to SanDiego, actually helped her dra. I there because I was like that's really far.You know I would feel comfortable. I if I went with you so that you know 'cause,you know halfway across the country anyways, we ended up going, you made itsound like it was down the road. That's pretty far I'll drive you therwas aboutsixteen hundred miles, but the thing was Um. We got there and m the missions in parschool that she was going to after Howard, the the one, the pastorthe church there that Hene at was doing the missions in Burswel Hewas like why?Don't you stay here and go to schools? Lome? I was like wo. I didn't eventhink that was an option like so nd. Hey ended up doing that M, so I ended up getting a job when wewere in San Diego, and we were only there for about three four months butum when we were there. I worked for a construction company, doing foundationson houses, and you know because Um it was, you know financially Um. That was how you know. We had money, thennichols she, my wife. She worked for the church Um. She was a secretary atthe church. While we were there and UM. She lived with two girls in anapartment. I lived with some guys at a house that the church on they wereother students but um. So even then I I workd there and then I worked at auniversity there m doing on campus ministry stuff. While we werethere and got paid to do that and then Um anyways, we we went back to Oklahomaand Ar Kanzai can Mary and e. We never went back to San Diego, like we weregoing to. You were planning on going back afteryou got married. We were going to be interns at school and we were going tohelp teach other students and all of that M, because we were supposed to goto this dimple Turkey for missions, trip and Um Anyway. So when we didn't go back, we live Inh, my parents for a Mont inOklahoma, and I was working through a staffin agency again for York m thatyou know that a company that makes air conditioners and M. I worked there andthen we ended up moving to Arkansas. Where my wife's family lived there. I ended up getting a job atWalmart. U Got One of the few full time positions in their lawn and GardenCenter and Um. I actually worked at Walmart Anso, I joined the army um and which was only about probably five or six months. U So so? How did your decision come about tojoin the army? Okay, so this from your own side of the family, herside, you guys talking together thinking about your future. How didthat come Bo? So it's funny because uh, like I said before, I want to join theair force, but after Hidin, but I never did 'cause. I grew up about two milesdown the street from Tinker Air Force based in n Oklahoma, so Um when we were in Oklahoma. Actuallybefore we went to Arkansas, I ended up going to the air force recruiter, andso they had me take the Azbat 'cause. I hadn't took the Azat, which is the IHISWT Taio. It's a test that...

...ave to Tud test to see how smart youare, how compistant you are to see where what jobs you would qualify forin the military andsthough. I made really high schore Um and they werelike wow. You could do any job. You want in the Air Force, so sorry forpeople who would think about joining th, t e, the army or the Air Force or thenavy. Were you nervous at this time? Were you scared at this time like to gookay? This is 'cause most people knowing going to a job like this. Thisis a career, so you're Kinda. This is not a recruiting or this is not. Youknow a convenient store. This is not some mission trip. This is this is acareer. So how did you feel going to the re? You know the military recruiterand taking these tests and like kind of taking a bigresponsibility upon yourself? Well, I think nervous. At that time I was Bob alittle nervous, because this was the beginning of two thousand and seven and it was during the search and in the war in Iraq, and that was whenthings were getting really bad and they the military, really neede a lot ofpeople, and so they probably lowered their standards. They definitelylowered their standards. At that time, for people that were join joining M hada lot of x convicts that were basicl training with me and stuff, but it was because they needed people.Lots of people were dying at that time, but the thing was Um. I mean I was alittle nervous, but I think s Mornerwas just how Lali do on the test ecause. Ihad been out of high school for five years. You know so you know. wermost peoplewere joining the military, WRIDEU OU high school. I was you know, five yearsout of that Um and then my Wayo did well yeah in your life yeah, so my wifeUm she was pregnant with our son Jaden Um. At that time, 'cause we got marriedDecember of o six, and this is what January of o seven is. When I was working inOklahoma, um at York and then probably January February, wemoved to Arkansas where my wife's family lived and then what was Marchor April. I went to the but the air force recruited there, butI couldn't get in because I had a hearing loss im I right here and theywouldn't give me a waiter and theyrmor. They it's harder to get into the airforce than the Navy Um. It's easiest to get into the marinecourt Um, but it was at that time. Actually, I think,easier to get in the army, but anyways Um. I went to the airforcerecruiter Linto Map whichis, where you go to do all the medical they make sureyou qualify medically and I didn't qualify mmbecause of my hearing. So then probblyou disappointed. Were you disappointed with that, like you were saying thatyou wanted at a high school to join the Air Force? And then you know, fiveyears later you have responsibility on your back you're like I'm going to go,do it and then they say no you're, not Oh yeah. I was very disappointed M. I, and you know the thing is like a monthlater, I went to the navy recruiter and they wouldn't give me a waver from myhearing either, and the funny thing is: Is that M mybrother inlaw Aaron, my wife's brother and then her other brother Justin wereboth in the army and they both got recruited by the SARFERST class Lunk, the recruiterthat recruited me and my mother and fother well, my mother in law did notlike the guy. She thought that that he lied to them. 'cause. You know,recruiters are known for MHM Gaggerating, the yeah, Oh yeah, but he never lied to me or anything Um.He was. He was a good recruiter, but um when I was at Walmart all the time d.n't remember one time he he came by and I was talking to him and I had told him.I wanted to join the air force and then couldn't get in. He was like hey, youshould come to the office and Ousshoul. We he's like I'm very surethe army will give you a waver for your hearing and he did that for a littlewhile, probably o now a month and a half two months, and he I told ItoaNicol and I was like you know what I said. Maybe I should just go the armyrecruiter, and so I did and they gave me a waver- and that was in July of Ohseven and Um...

...and then August. How did how did Nicole yourwife feel about you joining the military you're like okay, I think itmight. It might work. Oh S, she hesitant. She was scared. She didn'tWahe didn't want to be a military wife, but she was solely supportive of it,though, and it was funny because I never wantedto join the army. I mean the Mari Corps. I was never an option, but the army was defi. Why? Why wouldthe marine core? You know I'm Fr Canada, so we don't have it the same way, butwhat's what's the reserves about the Marine Corssso?Tough, tough and not? And it's not necessarily true, butthe marine corpes is known for not being the brightest okay. Maybe I could get a job ECAUSE,I'm not very babut. I don't know from a CINAD. I hear theMarine Cor. Those those guys are and girls are, are on the top of their game.From what I understand yeah, they they get pretty good training Um. But you got two sides in the marinecore. You got the aviation side and you got the non aviation site and everybody and nonaviention decided ogrunt and which is what you call you know infantry, even though they're nowall infantry they're all considered, I mean you, ask a marine what job theyhave they'LS tell you their their marine they're, not anything else. I es e soldier in the army what theyare they're going to tell you theyre specific job, a murmerinis trained towor we're a marine so um, so yeah. What okay, sorry, just'cause, I'm ignorant. What would a marine do? There just to go fight isthat ee mean yeah, I mean they're. All I mean they obviously have cooks andthey have other skills yeah but but like in the army. Whe are alwaystrained that we're a soldier first, no matter what our job is but aren't, but the soldiers in thearmy don't really believe that, like they know that we have another duband that th bet arms, guys the guys that are infantry or tankers or any ofthe you know filled artillery. Those guys are the ones who really normallydo the fighting we're. Just your guys is job. What you're,referring to they'rethey're transferable, into UM civilian life, opposed to someone inthe marine who's you're trained to fight. You can't use that too manyplaces outside and with civilians, yeah and even the combat Armside of the army.I mean those guys a lot of t'em Um. I A lot of 'em reclassed and go intoother jobs in the army because they realize there's no real long termfuture to those jobs outside of the army, because only so many people canget hired by security contractors ya or you know, to go and to other countries-and you know, do comb yeah ons out of Brightside, though we would have toboth acknowledge that we appreciate those in the Marines and those that donot fighting and Lokas. Otherwise you would have people like me, and I Idon't know if you want to rely on that, but but surely people who fight andmainly just fight, we truly appreciate, but it just wasn't for you. No, I uh. I just I don't know I'm not I'm notsoft. I guess I just I was like I got to stay alive from my family. Well, I mean there's a good point right.These are hardcore folks that you don't want to mess with and you're glad thatthey're on the front line, 'cause they're hard yeah. They are and they'reTheyar N, they're, Malli, regreds them oranything their quality, a life in the army and the military is quitedifferent than everybody. Elseis too thereare a way more they're round thefield more. They get treated a lot different, um yeah, it's just a very a lot, tougherenvironment, so your wife was hesitant of youjoining, but so you, you decided to go for it, Yep h, so I wanted to do satellite communications. Actually, I wanted to be a lit OPIAN,lisense tractical nurse, which is a sixty eight weeks pe Mike six, which isa code identification code, but they changed it.

It's been a long time now they changedit now to a sixty, eight Charlie M, but anyway, so I didn't have I didn'tqualify because of maccarine class ECAUSE. I has to get a waiter, and so Iwanted to do. Satellite Communications, but actually the funny thing is is thereason I picked my job as a biomedical. Chomotechnician was because- and Ievrybody that doesn't know- I repair medical women, I'm like an automotivetechnician for medical women, but the reason I picked that job is literallybecause when I went to the recruiter M it was one of the ones on the list andhad the longest training and like oh so my wife and my son can come with meright and they're like yeah. I was like I just wanted. I jus't want my wife was my son to viewwith me, so I picked the one that that would actually happen and UH 'cause. Mytraining was just a a little over a year which is really long compared tomost of the jobs. I mean most jobs. You know the training form and the armyis maybe a couple months. Um some of Hem are about six months, but mindless.You know Overju just about a year a little over a year. So this way thetraining you chose would allow you to live in a place betrained and have yourfamily with you, yes, andpposed to being deployed right after you're doneyour training and in a short period of time, yeah and so yeah. I was the unfortunate thing was at that time we still drill sergeants for not just basic training, but forour advanced individual training. That's the train, you do after basicand then they took 'em away for several years and now they're brought them back.But so I was around drill Starton for fifteen months, and you know that's a I re you suggesting. That is difficult.Is it's not I oean? Yes, drills, ou in it's like o when you go to ait and yougo for a year. It's e Kinda, like you're, going to college M, but you gointo college with Joll sardons down your throat all the time and they're I mean they're, not nice, so they're not supposed to be n, no and Um Yeah. They they make a lot of peoplecry, and so so your position is mainly staied to what you're doing so. Howlong have you been in the military now you're presently active? So today isthe six right. So in eight days, thirteen years, thank you for your service Y, so yeah, even even from Canada, you'reyou're, a big brother that protects us. Everybody knows that there's no secret IIT was 'T. Ver America will be doomedyeah. You got his military's tiny. I mean that is. If any other countrywant to take over Canada, I mean if they yeah, they wont to quite quitecLot of resources, beautiful so on a daily basis. What dos your job consistof, so it Hasa medical equipment,technician Ocaur Soehow, because I'm I rank than I obviously wasthirteen years ago. It's quite different! So now I'm a supervisor I'm in chargeof WAT. They call a squat leader, I'm in charge to Foro the guys, my squad M. I have two team leaders and then so now I mainly supervise M. There's a me and two other staff sergeants and we're all squawleaders, and then we all hade. You know like fie the five to eightsoldiers under us, but the big thing we do now is not only do I um, I don't work on the comen anymore. I MQuc, some like quality quality assurance quality control after thetechnicians do all their work on the UQUEMEN. Then we have to go behind themand make sure everything is right, not in the workthey did, but mainly in the paperwork calibration stickers, orthe Koment. That requires calibrationand then m. We had to go onto what's called Garmy GCS S. Army has the systemthat we use in the filled units to keep...

...track of war orders, and we have toaccount for all of our time anyway. So I do that, but then also Ihave to um supervise my soldiers and other soldiers, but mainly my soldiersUm. We Um have to give them monthly,counsellings, so h, performance, Orientad, counselings and how they'redoing Um- and you know we have to make sure that they are doing whatthey're supposed to for their career path. T we give them that we um findopportunities for them to give Ete more training. In our jobs, because the armyis not just Oh, you go to work but like in order to get promoted, you have toget enlisted. OTHE Army O had to get promotion points, and you have to go todifferent training to give points, and you have o you have to do physical training, Um and, dependingon how you do on your physical finess test, we call the army physical,fendist ses, the apt. You Get certin amount of promotion points for that,and then we go to the range and shoot our assigned weapon, which most of us is ainfor, and you get a certain amount of promotion. Points for how you UM shootat the range is for a promotion is what is the biggest competitor? Is itother soldiers to your promotion? Or is it yourself? It's yourself mainly. No, the the thing with the army is. You have advantages being in different units than otherunits, though, because there's sometimes it's easier for promotion,you mean no, not user from promotion. So the thing is you um like when I w worked at the hospital.I've worked at two army, hospitals and Um when you're at the hospital. Youhave less opportunity to go to different training classes because thehospital never closes and so or the the hospital mission is firstlike the hospital operating is the main ciority of the partnow. Your promotionyeah, I mean so you have to you, have to takeadvantage of every opportunity there isfor that Um and then I mean it looksgood like it gives you good experience. 'cause you're always doing your job mwhen you're in the hospital, like infiild units like I'm in now, Um,which in the army you have. Basically you have in the medical side of thearmy. You have like Medcam like the hospital side, andthen you have forcecome so forces command would be all your brigadecombat teams, your big Um, airborne divisions. All of that and those areconsidered, forhorses command and Horce come our priority is going and findngmores like that, it's not Um! So when you're an force CA, the even the fourth com units, they really don't. I mean they carewhen, when, when there's Um, you know inspections or whatever but ULTIMATN,they careabout, they don't care about the medical coment, they care abouttrucks, guns and they, the medical, is definitely not seen as a prior anorityMHM as much at the hospital. That's all thatmatters is patience Um, but your your priority in Forcecom unit. That'sI'm in a force Comun to know, but I mean you know. Like I mean we doour job every day, w. So it's preparing for war, it's not whether yourpromotion or other aspects of the military, it's listen! This is I mean that's why it's a very riskyprofession, you're in right, you're, not a lifeguard at a swimming Pearl,even though it has its risks. You'R, you're, training for war that can't be forgotten as well, evenwhen you're looking for promotions and all that, like the Ole soul purpose, isto Trai or to defend yourself. I guess you guys probably have a a mission thatis along those lines, yeah and we have tho think all metal, which is yourmission, essential, Taslis task listing...

...and that's whatever Youre, whateverunit you're in they have a certain metal, and your commander is required for yourunit to U to be trained to meet that Um, and so we go to the field um about five times a year for a week to twoweeks. At a time. Basically, W was Gooun in the woods and we h. We live oun the woods for a week or twoweeks, and we do ore Mor to fihin somewhat and it sucks and it's not not fun Um but like we're going in just a couple ofweeks and it's what hundred degrees outside so um, it's miserable, so so promotion th the most difficult thingis yourself, but also it's hard based on where you're placed at thatparticular time, yeah and the opportunities there are so um there'sother people that want to get promoted, trying to get into the same classes ortha. Only only so many positions to be hired for yeah and then once you get enoughpoints H, I mean it depends. I know guys that made I'm a sergeant in fiveand a half years. I know guys that made sergeant and two and half years and itjust depends like, and that can be BA partially yourself,and it can also be partially the opportunities youere. Given I had asoldier when I was at forehead. He had been in for seven years and it never been to train classes oranything like whoever was in charge of him before failed him. But that's also our job's supervisor,you know is too. We are. We have aresponsibility, a D, make sure our soldiers get those opportunities andthat they get into those m because they can't do it themselves. Um and literally in the army, were responsible for those guys like ifthey're lay to work, we're Hel responsible to MHM and if they are, if they failed something.It's artful like. I know it's crazy but like yeah, it bleads over into civil lifetoo. It's something that son, IOI'M gonna show my manly powers here. My dear wife askedme to Oh iy. Just got denied I'm it's hot here, it's like thirty somethingdegrees or ninety degrees. So my dear wife has asked me to open the spaghettijar to Getin ere coo thanks Havy, it was a little clammy. So what is withwith the difficulty in getting promotion? What about? What is thegreatest difficulty? You experience in your career, whether it's particular toyour job, your rank or what is most difficult of being a soldier. The most difficult part is Um,difficult people, um MHM, so toxic leadership. So I think the I think the army in themilitary's doing more about it now than ever before, but I've had some. I had one supervisor Forhood that guywas a tirant and the problem is: Is that in the rank structure in the army is that it can get to the point where somepeople they get enough rank that it protects them. Alessoning you somethingreally detrimintal Um like. Sometimes it has to get to thepoint where the way the system is sometimes set up.Is that aless the person sexually assalts, someone or sexually harassessomeone they somehow some get threw away with it? Yeah, and I mean it's yea the because, as you get higher ring,you get more power it'sum and the problem is, is that you do still have those Um soldiers that have been in the army areally long time and they got a lot of rink and they still have the old schoolarmy way of thinking, which in some...

...ways is good, because I think that in some in some ofthose ways, tat Um, the the military is been negatively affected by this softer way of thinking. In some waysyou know, there's some benefits and then there's definitely some umrepercussions at to be indetpresident, but you just Um. You know, like I know these days. You know people usethat term snowflake, but the thing is like th that you can't be that tar likeif you cannot, if you can, if you cannot handle the crusher, then the army doesn't want you and but at the same time, people takeit too far and they um some really bad things happen.Sometimes like people, ge obinkan, some crazy stuff happens and people gettinglots of trouble and- and you know there is a they do- havethings to deal t that an te del ith the people like that, but yeah toxic neadership. I thinkthat's the hardeum. That's that's pretty universal right, like Y, if youhave whether it's a home in the family or business or this country or thatcountry, if your leadership is waning or wanting, then MHM thatw'lltrickle down to the employees or the subordinates. What is something youlike about your job with? I think I, like the stability, it's hard to lose your job in that armym, but it does happen. I mean you, you I mean you, don't make it thirteen years without you know doingsomething right. Obviously, but I'm obvious an I like the structure Ilove structure. Iyou know like you can't call in sick in the army. What about you know you're you're,talking about structure? How can you think back to when you were youwhatever,seventeen, eighteen and Youre living? How you want it before you got married?Not. I would assume that there's not much structure in how you live, nor howI lived and then you're married and then now you have this career, that'sstabe! instructured. Can you see the contrast of how your thought process went then versushow you able to think now? Oh, of course, I think the structure isum like I have to be up at a certain time.Every morning I I have no other choice. I can't decide that I don't want to goto work today and calling sick. I it holds like there's that consequences that you m the army, you,if you're late to work and and especially, if you do it enuck like you, the army will take pay away fromyou and you can get punished with what we call ArticleFifteen, which is a well the articles in the UCMJ, the uniform, cud militaryjustice, and so it's not just like you may not, and eventually you can getkicked out of the Army Um, but it's Um. So you know like you, especially when you're a youngsoldier. You are scared to Belaer work or, U and ND, and I atthe time seems like it's bad, but what you learn is you learned not to be late for work? Why d? Why do you think I mean this isgenerally speaking, not all soldiers when they're first starting out arscared, but why do you think? I think I have an idea. Why do you think peoplewould be scared just joining the military and worried about being lateor sick or something? And what is the reasoning behind for their own personalfear of the consequences w? What do you think that they may have lacked, but aswhat you're I think alluding to is what now you appreciate? Oh well, I think they lacked. U Boy, Ithink what they have is laziness M and everybody deals with that. You know like when you're a civilianand you Um- I mean I've had plenty of civilian jobs,t an you could get.

You know there were consequences toBein late bind you just didn't Um, like the army, like especially basictraining and stuff, like they have drill serveants that are there to putthat healthy fear into you and they a healthy fear of God. I meanand Youre, and the thing is like the armydoesn't always do with things Um on paper like what we try to do is dealwith things, so you don't have to pay actualfinancial consequences. MHM lightened, I we call again smoked, but you know they're to learn the lessonwithout being Um discipline in your file exactly yeah,it's called a yeah. It's you. I mean, I know guys that havegotten they uh they did physical training Um gettingYe. I believe it all. I believe, all day, long Um so yeah, I think you'retouching on it- is that the people who had join the military are afraidbecause they lack that discipline going in. So they don't have the wherewithalto know that this is important, so out of fear, they're doing it rather thanwhat you're saying now um you appreciate that structure it is, is notobbly. I kno it's not only in your job. Nowyou do everything in a structured order. Oh an IT drives my life nuts I but Sursai, but you said it was okayto joy, the military you should have known, I would be structured yeah. You taught O my wife, Eddris ernuts, like how I just very meticclaciff. I know we know it's and the thing is like the h Um, but you know the structure like keeps me organized. It keeps mefrom forgetting, and it keeps me Um. It keeps me accountable and it's Um- and you know like now: I'm notresponsible for myself, I'm responsible for myself and four other guys and Um Ia, and I'm the one when those guys arelate can sometimes have to give them consequences and I feel like their Dath Mbut, and these are grown men and'cause like in my Scot. I don't have any females but um the, but I have to be an example tothem and it's o and the thing is like it.You know the army says for leaders to not lettheir subordinates know when they mess up, but I um, I don't know I always had more respectfor a leader that Um understood they were so humility,exactly and so AAH I make sure I do the same, but it's Um yeah the structure and the Yiunoltability a and the thing is likethe I also first and foremost im responsible to take care of my way, ankits and what I lack and what I neglect to do is going to affect them and it'. U That's. You know aneven when I was inbasic trainings and I I didn't know better and I and therewere plenty of other people there with me that were making reie stupid decisions that were even at thattime getting them in trouble. MHM. I didn't even take the chance of doinganything like that, because this doesn't just affect me. It affectsmy wife at Ome and my presen and I my wife was tragnent with our son when Iwas in basing Um so and another thing what you weretalking about. Another thing as hard as leaders that are over me that aren't married m. that'shard Beca, don't have the same. They don't have the same understanding andappreciation for maybe your time. Yeah they. U They're, okay, with staying atwork, all the time more, a Um yeah I I bead it would be tough yeahthey don't they don't h...

...and if you're not committed likethey're committed, then you're not committed yeah and you know, and then I mean you knowa lot of those guys, though not all but there's a dthere's, a pretty goodpercentage of those guys that I've been married before and aren't married anymore, and they you know- and I don't think itjustifies it but 'cause. You know I, my wife and I wouldn't dothis, but they the're work all the time their familynever sees them and then sadly, unfortunately, n ther family,gleapes Om, but Um, and you know there's that that's another thing islike my family. They know the army doesn't come first, but thatdoesn't mean I that's what I heard from a military family that is it. The the military is the first wife and thewife is the mistress or or the mistresses, the wife, somethingsomething along those. So there's a saying in the army, an old saying: ifthe army wanted t you to have a wife, they would have issued you one. I say to that. Well, I had my wifebefore I joined, toprode Ou didn't have to that's rough yeah, at's, gi or n an opinion. If th army want you ohave an opinion. They would have issued you an oh yeah. That would work too. What is some advice that you have for?You know you think back to deliver your newspapers with your kid, with yourparents, Um being a kid and some of the jobs thatyou had in looking into your your hopes and dreams of being a mechanic an andthat changing and then finding a wife- and you know along that path- you therewere many types of vew along the way that there are in the world now peoplewithout direction, people who think they want to do something, not certainin between jobs. What sort of advice do you have for people in in their way of work in their lifejourney of work and how they might be better served in thinking of work? So I think that perferst M. I think that you, you have to understand that we got to have apurpose on it right. So Um, it's Um. You know, I think a lot of people'spurpose can be different for Everybod, but I think the one thing is is that you, you understand that your like you're, you don't want to bedefined by your job but Um. You know it's, but it um and you want to find something that youenjoy to do. But if what you enjoy to do isn't going to financially support you,you might want to think of something else that you can do two Um for eachjob m. You know there's a lot of people that, in the army, people do this tooand like they'll, want to get out and then you're like hey. What are yougoing to do and they don't know wher they're like I'm, going to go to school,but yeah? How are you going to lit if, like life is not like things, aren'tfree like? How are you going to live, and sometimes you just have to do thosereally crummy jobs? Thanmarrd the don't pay alot build skills like there. You have to build a you have to have job skills like thepeople, like everybody thinks you got to go to college, but why is it a lotof jobs where you go to some kind of ocaitional training pays much more alot of times than the jog you could give from just going to college. It'sbecause you can because college you know going to Universitys, not that thingand depending on your job, it's going to require, but the thing is is thatyou know people complain about minimum wage being low or well. First of all,there's always got a be. There's always got to be that minimal skills starting point for everyone andum andthen, if you don't like the job, you're doing or the pay, youget, you get more skills and you know a lot of people these days.They Wan no be popular online or Onista grammar you to have en...

...they don't want a work, not that someof those people who work. But the thing is like that's a rarity and just likeprofessional sphorttlayers is rare, like this percentage of people thatactually do some of those things as very, very rare, and not that you know,and some people just don't Wanto be normal. They don't want to have anormal job. They don't have to you know, but but the thing is like you know: Ifpeople can stay, you know you'll get people that don't get paid a lot andthey complain about their pay or that they live a certain way and they say, but I work so hard yeah, but but a lot of times the people that makeaul a lot workway harder than you think they doand it they tought hard to get to wherethey are, and it's Um like so h, and you know well, we thinkis hard sometimes, and what heart is to you know. I I ou know you could be aCEO of a big company and they might be working a hundred hours a week. And but people complain about forty hours aweek and I don't want to work a hundred douars a week. But you know like justthe fact that Um you know it's like in the army is like the more rank. YouGet um a lot of times the more you're expected to work and they're going toget that work out of you. But but a lot of Peopyou know they. Theydon't want to do what it takes to what you know society deems assuccessful. You know 'cause society deems successful financially, you knowyou're at a certain point, financially Um, but you've got to work hard and you can't. You also can't just work hard and you can't work hard atmcdonaldholds, for instance, forever and just stay at the bottom. Hey. Ifyou WANTNA become a manager like find out whatskills you need to become a manager or to be in charge, and it's Um. If, because you can't, you got ti you, you can't think the same way and m. You also got to Um. You can't alwaysbe a follower. I mean to be a great leader. You gotta be a good follower,but eventually you've got to like you, gotto start leading because like if you want to make ithigher in any job you're going to have to have better skills, you're going tohave to foll lead more than follow and you're Gongto have to show whoever youwork for that you're capale of doing that, and I mean it's Um and you knowthe job market. I mean you know jobs. It is very up to the people that you work with too,but you gotto figure out like what do you have to do to encrust that personwho was in charge of you Um? And you can't just ee like? Well, I'mdoing this? No! But what is their requirements? U Because, unfortunately, as not that', it's they're, the ones they're,the ones. That's going to decide m that or not whether you progress or by what you show them. So it's a NA lot of people don't want to do that.But- and you know what I mean hey if you're content with, if you're content with being at acertain point, whatever go ahead, but I don't complain when you don't gofurther and you don't have more and also- and also, I think, my otheradvices that money's, not everything Um, but it is important and also don't ever. I. I just think that at time you can't get back is never wortha sacrifice of your and what I mean by that is you getthe people in the army, for instance, that they live at work basically andthey never see their family and that's just time you can't get back like you,need an bigger out o way to get your job done in a timely manner and whereyou...

...don't have to be there forever. Becauthat time you can't get back even if they don't have family just toget back and take a rest and get out of it and push back from it. For A bit. OhYeah, you got ta rest Um, but I think a lot of people want toomuch rest too, like a lot of people, think they you know. Like M, I mean how d? How doyou rest? How do you reslit it's so funny like Um, so I'm pretty easy going anyways like I Allo, I just I feel like I'm a tortoistlike I just take life slow like I'm, not in a hurry, aboutmost anything andit's funny because at I I I always at some point like I just I fall asleep very fast when I go tosleep and it's, but the thing is like I just you know you just take those littlemoments of time to to slow down in, but not too much because h, then youjust do you still? Do you still work on your car? Oh Y, you still do you dothat for breaktime hobby time, oh yeah, I build custom, bikes and stuff mainlynow um, and I make money doing it too m on the side. But you know like I'm at a point rightnow, where I'm just kind of a probably a month or two rest time, because I Ispent quite a bit of time building a bike Um for myself and I finished abouta month ago and my wife and kids were like myth. Now you can have a littlebit of time with you and you not be in the garage every night and and then H, my wife's, like you're kind ofmicromanaging things a little. I think we need to get you another project. Get you back out of thatwhy. Do you goride that Motor Bik now? But you know the I, but you know I see how m structureis good for everyone and M it's a, but I also see even with my ownfamily and people that it's very hard for people to adjust to that. You know and it's not just structurebut like even in the army like physically, like we have to do PTPhysical Training Every Single Day, ofthe movie days and M, like you know, like we, take pretty good care of ourselvesin our family Um. The way we eat and stuff but like um I mean I run, don'tknow I probably run about ten to fifteen miles a week, but it's Um not really by choice, though it's Imean you still have that like you're required to do that, like you're, notjust it's not optional and that's a you know that structure there hold youaccountable to do it and but it it's good for you, and I meanyou benefit from it more tha, more ways than one, but it'sUm and you can't give up lake you have to, and you can't make excuses. You can'tblame everybody else. It's not always somebody else's fault, our laziness. My laziness is my nobodyelse's falt. If I'm ever lazy and it it's. U Ia, you know it's it's not like. We have to have personalresponsibility and, like I know my work ethic was terriblebeforae in the army. That was my fault. Nobody else's and it'sit, but peoplehave to understand you have to have personalresponsibility. It's not always somebody else's fault and you gotto dosomething, and I mean Lazynessism, it's a problem for everyone like we alldeal with. That too, like it's very tempting Um, it's you know. There'sdays I at work, and I literally just I'm not lotivated to do anything, but Istill av to and right- and I got people that a are are expecting me to pushthem to do better and Ma more poly got my wife and my kids that are expectingme Te, and so it's you know, and it affectsevery part of your life Um. Like our kids, I mean they have chores,they gotto do every day and...

...we hold hem incountabl. We will do itevery day and if you donen, and do it today, Lik him you're going to do it you'regoing to do it for longer, like just like, because you just make more work,forfr yourself when you procrastinate and you put things off, you make itharter for yourself and everybody else yourself. No, you have really good advice CLIFP,because in all of that those sorts of people, including youand I is what you're saying or when we're younger. We we look at you, knowthe CEO or the basketball player or the U Tube Channel person like. Oh, we wantthat life, but you're, not looking at the hundred hours they're putting O inor the skills required, or you know the jump shots know you just watch aMichael Jordan documentary or something how many shots he had to take just todo that and most people, you can't get them to run the five carer five milesin a week, let alone just shoot, shoot shoot or whatever the sport may be todo those things over and over and over and over again, and all of that doestake discipline, and all of that does take not being the victim not makingexcuses for yourself and and not blaming others for your shortcomingsand trying to overcome them, though those are all great pieces of advicecliff. How can people get in touch with you if someone want to get in touchwith you bout, maybe joining the military or Um just somthings on cars?I I know personally, you love dealing with cars and and H youere, very talented at it, and maybeone day, maybe my dear wife will let you make mea bike or something. How could someone reach you so mainly uh? You H, I'm a face book M, just a UP, clifferforner M and I also have asigram. I don't use it very much MHM. Just lookup my name. I can't remember. I showed you how much I use it, but H. also Um, you could y would say that's two ways. Also I canI can get AOBRIAN has my email, um, so um, but yeah anybody can contact me Um.Just I have one more question for you cliff. Is there anything else you liketo add anything off the top of your head, any H, regrets or hopes or wishes oradvice for people before I have one more question for you Um. I I think the biggest thing is um you're just not to give up, and that, like I, just you want to have a purpose inlife. everyody wants to have a purpose, and you know my wife and I asChristians. We understand our purpose and Li and but H, but the one thing is um that you just you know you yeah. I had the Saing, youknow we do better today than yesterday and better tomorrow than day and it'sUm, but don't do it on your own. Think ye you got to have people around you Um, because you know you can have lots ofmoney one day and be very successful and be all alone and life would be very lonely, and it's Um. You know, don't forget aboutthe people around you and yea. So it's true. I mean with the idea ofhaving a purpose. You know how I would um solidify, that is to say, make surethat purpose is sustainable on its own. You know if, if your purpose is the love of making motorbikes well,what happens if something happened to your hands or something and we'regoingto lose that ability right or if you know the purposes. You know yourdog, what w happens when your dog goes away? You know h those things as longas that thing is the motivation for the reasons why youdo things is self sustaining Um, then iwills help sustain you in thosedifficult times, because you know I it's something higher and stronger andbetter than what you're able to accomplish on your own cliff. I haveone final question: Why do you work? Well, I first work because I got tosupport my wife and kids and take care of my family. That's my first priority and second of all, I work because I love tolead people and Um. I H...

...you know, and human as a soldier. I,although I love to be in charge and I live to leave people but not to be a boss, but o be butning and Um. I think h also Um. I workd as I like it gives me. Well, it's one of those, it's not theonly thing, but it's one thing that gives me a purpose: Um and UH. It's? U, but I'm not defined by it.Like that's, not you know like I don't want to be known. You know one day as yeah. I want to be known as them known who I am now where I workedan Howoman jobne, an depus and Um. It's a you know you gotta, you gotta, live and Um, especially youknow, depending on where you live like wh everywhere. You Li takes the moneyUm, but it does go beyond that. U, you know, that's what it starts out asand don't get wrong. I wouldn't be a soldier for free and Um. I mean it's a. It can be a hard life sometimes, andyou know it's not an a window for free but um, but as a soldier too, like Iunderstand T at I'm, not just working, but I have a responsibility that I, the United States of America, iscounting on military soldiers and militarypersonnel to not just go and work every day, but s like we have a biggerpurpose than that stuff. Well, Cli. I appreciate your service inthe military. I appreciate your love for your wife and your children andwhat you do, and I would like to talk to you again sometime about this verything tuner hand at thinkou very much. I thank you for listening to thisepisode. Why we were with brangibe sore to subscribe, ND, follow and share withother things, so they two can be encouraged. There were. I hope that youhave yourself productive, njoyful, Dayin, your work.

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